#archlinux32 | Logs for 2024-10-28
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[20:31:03] <void09_> https://archlinux32.org is it breaking apart?
[20:33:05] <KitsuWhooa> i486 has been broken like that, idk why
[20:36:42] <void09_> my projec is trying to download a torrent on a 486 or similar machine
[20:36:51] <void09_> i haven't seen anything like this on youtube or web :-?
[20:37:07] <KitsuWhooa> well, for starters, you will unlikely get anything GUI on i486
[20:37:19] <KitsuWhooa> so you'll need to find a minimal cli torrent application
[20:37:31] <void09_> maybe wegui via api though
[20:37:45] <void09_> well i was thinking qbittorrent-nox, or rqbit (rust project)
[20:37:52] <KitsuWhooa> no rust in i486
[20:37:57] <void09_> managed to build rqbit for i686, 486 will be harder
[20:37:59] <void09_> oh
[20:38:12] <void09_> there is some, but with hacks and stuff
[20:38:12] <KitsuWhooa> and q probably stands for Qt, which I doubt is working
[20:38:19] <KitsuWhooa> I'm just saying that there's no rust in the repos
[20:38:27] <void09_> yes but -nox stands for headless daemon :D
[20:38:36] <KitsuWhooa> you can write headless applications with Qt
[20:38:38] <void09_> Ohh, yeah, cross compiliation obviously
[20:40:37] <void09_> well i'm thinking both should maybe work, although i want to see how slow/fast. most of the cpu would be used in 1) hash checking every piece 2) peer encryption
[20:42:22] <KitsuWhooa> I wonder if qemu tcg would be faster than a real cpu
[20:42:33] <KitsuWhooa> but then, tcg happily executes sse when it shouldn't, so
[20:44:41] <void09_> it does ??
[20:45:22] <void09_> I am still not 100% convinced if qemu emulates just cpu capabilities (or lack of), or does it also approximate actual cpu speed specific to the architecture?
[20:45:31] <KitsuWhooa> I don't think it approximates speed
[20:45:48] <KitsuWhooa> And I don't remember about i486, but it happily runs SSE2 on -cpu pentium3
[20:45:49] <void09_> felt a bit too fast installing arch, 5MB/s https download on a 486 ? don't think so
[20:46:01] <KitsuWhooa> you sure that's not kvm? :p
[20:46:21] <void09_> qemu-system-i386 \
[20:46:21] <void09_> -cpu 486 \
[20:46:21] <void09_> -m 1024M \
[20:47:23] <KitsuWhooa> huh
[20:47:25] <KitsuWhooa> should be fine
[20:47:45] <void09_> I have no 486 unfotunately, I should buy one, they're like $100 for a full system
[20:47:55] <KitsuWhooa> I don't think you can run it on a real i486
[20:48:09] <void09_> just a pentium 3 500mhz, hope it still runs, will try to boot next day
[20:48:11] <KitsuWhooa> I think the initramfs takes up more than than you can put on one
[20:48:28] <KitsuWhooa> obviously it'll work if you make it small enough
[20:48:35] <KitsuWhooa> custom kernel, etc etc
[20:48:38] <void09_> oh yeah, i tried with 64 or 128mb in qemu and it didnt start :(
[20:49:18] <void09_> and it's hard to get even 32MB ram 486 systems
[20:49:21] <KitsuWhooa> yeah
[20:49:30] <KitsuWhooa> there should be newer cpus though without sse that can support that much ram
[20:49:46] <void09_> maybe a pentium 200mhz :-
[20:50:01] <KitsuWhooa> yeah, a pentium will probably be fine
[20:50:13] <KitsuWhooa> maybe a K5?
[20:50:52] <void09_> oh yeah that would be sexy if i can find one
[20:51:01] <KitsuWhooa> I'm sure they're cheap
[20:51:06] <void09_> hm system booted with 128MB ram in qemu
[20:51:32] <void09_> seems that's the max you can slot on a 486 era system
[20:51:34] <KitsuWhooa> especially if you buy a lot of old cpus "for scrap gold"
[20:51:39] <KitsuWhooa> then it might be viable
[20:51:54] <void09_> cpus are easy to find i guess, motherboards not so much
[20:52:09] <KitsuWhooa> yeah
[20:52:30] <KitsuWhooa> I have one I need to try to fix
[20:53:17] <void09_> can arch use the swap at initramfs stage ?
[20:53:42] <KitsuWhooa> I have no idea
[20:53:53] <KitsuWhooa> but uh, I didn't know one can swap initrd itself
[20:53:54] <void09_> just booted with 64MB, but a bit slow, so i am thinking yes
[20:54:09] <KitsuWhooa> okay maybe I was wrong
[20:54:20] <KitsuWhooa> how big is it?
[20:54:21] <void09_> just make an nvme 486 :D
[20:54:41] <KitsuWhooa> I have an SSD on my P3 laptop, and the controller on the ssd is probably faster than the P3 on the laptop itself
[20:54:43] <KitsuWhooa> funny to think about
[20:55:11] <void09_> how big is what, the initramfs ?
[20:55:14] <KitsuWhooa> yeah
[20:55:20] <KitsuWhooa> for i486
[20:57:00] <void09_> no idea, seems 62MB ram can run it, while 60MB can't
[20:57:55] <KitsuWhooa> pretty cool
[20:58:04] <KitsuWhooa> for some reason I remember it being larger
[20:58:10] <void09_> I'm guessing cross compiled gentoo is the OS to go for this
[20:58:17] <KitsuWhooa> for what
[20:58:34] <KitsuWhooa> the torrent project?
[20:58:42] <void09_> for trimmed kernel, package base etc
[20:58:51] <KitsuWhooa> should all be viable on arch
[21:00:15] <void09_> 62MB gives errors eventually, emergency console and such. 64MB actually works
[21:01:25] <KitsuWhooa> hm, you might not be able to get 64MB of RAM on a 486
[21:01:40] <KitsuWhooa> you probably need a memory hole for ISA
[21:01:45] <KitsuWhooa> and I doubt any of that gets remapped
[21:03:55] <KitsuWhooa> but then, qemu might also do that
[21:03:57] <KitsuWhooa> idk
[21:04:29] <void09_> https://www.ebay.com
[21:04:29] <void09_> 7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4Sug8_aZA
[21:04:31] <phrik> Title: VINTAGE RETRO SIEMENS NIXFORD SCENIC-4H CPU i486 DX2/66 64MB RAM | eBay (at www.ebay.com)
[21:05:21] <KitsuWhooa> oh that looks really nice
[21:05:40] <KitsuWhooa> windows does see 64, so I guess it's fine?
[21:06:05] <void09_> indeed
[21:06:21] <void09_> what aur helper should i pick for i486 ? yay doesn't seem to work there
[21:06:27] <KitsuWhooa> none :p
[21:06:39] <KitsuWhooa> /j
[21:07:02] <KitsuWhooa> you probably need to find one written in C
[21:07:56] <KitsuWhooa> I see a few in python, but they probably will be sloooooow
[21:08:06] <KitsuWhooa> maybe pacaur
[21:08:34] <KitsuWhooa> oh it's dead
[21:09:18] <void09_> what a pointless thing to write such a thing in python. why not perl or ruby, lol
[21:09:27] <KitsuWhooa> don't think it makes a difference
[21:09:35] <KitsuWhooa> maybe https://github.com ?
[21:09:37] <phrik> Title: GitHub - aurutils/aurutils: Helper tools for the AUR. (at github.com)
[21:10:41] <void09_> https://aur.archlinux.org - this works on i486 just fine, should I spam the author to add it, lol
[21:10:42] <phrik> Title: AUR (en) - ookla-speedtest-bin (at aur.archlinux.org)
[21:11:09] <KitsuWhooa> I suspect it's qemu
[21:12:30] <void09_> the source binary is "i386", so I suspect they just compiled it for i386 ?
[21:12:43] <void09_> btw, did archlinux32 ever support i386?
[21:12:49] <KitsuWhooa> nope
[21:13:00] <void09_> I guess I should ask, did arch ever support i386
[21:13:14] <KitsuWhooa> that I do not know
[21:13:39] <KitsuWhooa> i386 is used around as a generic term for 32 bit fwiw
[21:13:45] <KitsuWhooa> Debian's i386 is not i386
[21:14:54] <void09_> but it was at some point, no ?
[21:15:35] <KitsuWhooa> probably
[21:20:19] <KitsuWhooa> I ran objdump on the speedtest binary and I see a few movaps in there
[21:20:28] <KitsuWhooa> could be conditionals though
[21:23:26] <void09_> I still find it hard to believe that qemu would run illegal instructions :P
[21:26:17] <void09_> do you have a link for that ?
[21:31:24] <KitsuWhooa> https://uploader.tasossah.com :p
[21:32:12] <KitsuWhooa> I even wrote a little test program https://uploader.tasossah.com
[21:37:08] <bill-auger> void09_: they" did not compile it - the package name ending in -bin indicates that the PKGBUILD simply downloads binaries and packages them for use
[21:37:38] <KitsuWhooa> well, yes, but I assume they were referring to whoever compiled the binary and published it :p
[21:37:42] <void09_> did I say that ? ookla speedtest is closed source anyway
[21:37:45] <bill-auger> if they are claiming tht it supports i386, probably they simply reoeating debian;s nomenclanture
[21:38:09] <void09_> i just edited the pkgbuild and replace i686 with i486 and it ran on the qemu
[21:38:31] <void09_> seems this qemu 486 is at least 10-15 times faster than an actual 486
[21:38:43] <bill-auger> yes you did - and right that is usually because they are proprietary
[21:38:44] <KitsuWhooa> modern cpus have gotten really advanced, huh
[21:39:14] <KitsuWhooa> dosbox is probably more faithful
[21:43:24] <bill-auger> probably, QEMU has a throttle to emulate a precise clock freq
[21:44:02] <bill-auger> if "authentically slow" is yer thang
[21:45:08] <KitsuWhooa> maybe -icount can get you closer
[21:45:36] <void09_> it does? haven't found anything about throttle
[21:46:10] <bill-auger> i thik arch only supported i686 originally - when arch was started, 486 was over 10 years old and 2 generations behind bleding edge
[21:47:50] <socksinspace> if you want accurate emulation, maybe x86box is for you
[21:48:34] <socksinspace> s/x86box/86box
[21:49:06] <KillerWasp> https://86box.net - 86Box | Emulator of retro x86-based machines
[21:49:06] <phrik> Title: 86Box | Emulator of retro x86-based machines (at 86box.net)
[21:49:29] <void09_> yeah i wanted to try that, but got discouraged since there's no linux native gui to configure it ?
[21:49:38] <void09_> or was that just for multiple systems
[21:49:53] <socksinspace> that is for multiple configurations
[21:50:08] <void09_> oh yeah, I guess I was just too lazy to figure it out :d
[21:50:19] <void09_> qemu much more run one command and enjoy
[21:51:01] <KillerWasp> what mean by low level emulation?....
[21:51:05] <KitsuWhooa> I wonder how easy it'd be to disable the windows only stuff to get it to run on linux
[21:52:09] <socksinspace> it's only the fancy configuration manager that doesn't run
[21:52:19] <KitsuWhooa> I am talking about the config manager, yes
[21:52:47] <KillerWasp> i build Emu486, that run low level emulation (?), like interpreter of bytecodes.
[21:53:24] <KitsuWhooa> Basically the main issue is it uses window messaging to communicate with the vm
[21:54:27] <KitsuWhooa> anyway
[23:30:56] <void09_> https://archlinux32.org
[23:30:58] <phrik> Title: Arch Linux 32 - qbittorrent-nox 4.3.9-1.0 (i486) (at archlinux32.org)
[23:31:01] <void09_> sigh, any idea what's up with this one ?
[23:31:07] <void09_> not satisfiable dependency: "libtorrent-rasterbar.so.10" (link)
[23:31:48] <void09_> does it need a too old libtorrent version to work, that's out of the repos ?
[23:37:34] <KitsuWhooa> check testing and staging
[23:38:04] <KitsuWhooa> but also, I'd ignore what the website says
[23:39:15] <KitsuWhooa> considering it was last built in 2021, neither testing nor staging will help
[23:39:24] <KitsuWhooa> there's a mirror archive somewhere if you want to manually try extracting the library
[23:39:38] <KitsuWhooa> https://archive.archlinux32.org
[23:39:39] <phrik> Title: Index of / (at archive.archlinux32.org)