#archlinux-ports | Logs for 2017-06-21
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[00:02:33] <tyzoid> root^2: Does aif-ng work with the default arch iso?
[00:02:38] <tyzoid> Or is it a special iso?
[00:03:33] <r00t^2> tyzoid: per the docs, no - it's still in testing stage; i need more feedback. once i've got a bit more input i'll be proposing it for inclusion
[00:03:54] <r00t^2> there's a pre-build ISO available, but you'll probably want to change the boot params to point to your own aif.xml
[00:04:36] <r00t^2> or you can cook your own ISO; the full manual has instructions
[00:04:54] <tyzoid> I'm thinking of it as a possibility for doing automatic build testing for arch32
[00:05:04] <tyzoid> so we have our own facilities for iso building
[00:05:08] <tyzoid> which isn't too big a problem
[00:05:13] <r00t^2> could definitely do that, yeah
[00:05:44] <r00t^2> you could even probably get it to build in a qcow2 image so you could test with libvirt/kvm or something
[00:06:04] <tyzoid> I was thinking of using virtualbox
[00:06:10] <tyzoid> but that might work too
[00:06:31] <tyzoid> mostly because I don't have much experience with virtualization outside of vbox
[00:06:31] <r00t^2> yeah, vbox, same thing, different process- just manually create the vbox disk image and mount it in one of the pre hooks
[00:07:14] <tyzoid> root^2, have you seen the arch32 forum?
[00:07:19] <tyzoid> https://bbs.archlinux32.org
[00:07:22] <r00t^2> not yet
[00:07:35] <tyzoid> we have a thread over there looking at solutions for automated testing
[00:08:09] <r00t^2> oh nice- will register and suggest if you can find a link to the thread
[00:08:28] <tyzoid> lol, it's the only thread on the forum right now :)
[00:08:30] <tyzoid> https://bbs.archlinux32.org
[00:09:10] <rewbycraft> I want to point out that I've already got a libvirt/kvm based virtualization cluster
[00:09:50] <rewbycraft> So if need be, I can just give a hookup to my cluster to let you boot whatever qcow2 image you need
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[00:14:55] <tyzoid> r00t^2: Would you be willing to help with configuring that?
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[00:15:55] <rewbycraft> Anyway, I'm gonna go sleep
[00:15:59] <tyzoid> alright
[00:16:00] <rewbycraft> So see you guys tomorrow
[00:16:01] <tyzoid> good night
[00:16:07] <tyzoid> I'm about to head off from work
[00:16:31] <tyzoid> r00t^2_: You still aroudn?
[00:16:37] -!- fsckd has joined #archlinux-ports
[00:16:38] <tyzoid> around*
[00:17:29] <tyzoid> I'll be back in a few hours
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[01:10:26] <fsckd> what software is used to log this channel? also perhaps the link to logs should be in the topic?
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[01:29:44] tyzoid_ is now known as tyzoid
[01:30:27] <tyzoid> fsckd: Not sure about the first question
[01:30:39] <tyzoid> and as for the second question, I don't think anyone here has op, and so can't set it
[01:33:58] <fsckd> my first question is because we may want to log #archlinux-newbie. the logs you have at http://mirror.archlinux32.org are nice. i was wondering how they are generated.
[01:36:04] <tyzoid> I believe that's handled by brtln
[01:36:15] <tyzoid> There's a user on the channel called brtln_logger
[01:36:19] <tyzoid> so that'd be my assumption
[01:36:25] <fsckd> ahh ok
[01:36:28] <tyzoid> apart from that, I assume an irssi plugin?
[01:37:26] <tyzoid> I don't know
[01:37:30] <tyzoid> probably some bouncer
[01:39:59] <fsckd> it is nice
[01:41:33] <fsckd> as for my second question, it might be convenient to have the link in the topic.
[01:42:32] <tyzoid> Yeah, I'm not sure how that can be done
[01:42:39] <tyzoid> nobody has op, so...
[01:43:10] <tyzoid> unless we all move to a new channel
[01:43:58] <fsckd> i think i can add it to the topic, if that is ok
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[01:44:49] <tyzoid> fsckd: go for it
[01:45:00] <fsckd> i am not normally here which is why i was hesitating. i don't know the norms.
[01:45:04] <fsckd> ok
[01:46:05] ChanServ changed topic of #archlinux-ports to: Porting Arch Linux to non-x86_64 architectures | https://lists.archlinux.org | Current efforts: preserving i686 at http://archlinux32.org | Channel logs: http://mirror.archlinux32.org
[01:46:16] <fsckd> is that ok?
[01:46:49] <fsckd> or should it be moved before Current efforts?
[01:48:36] <tyzoid> Looks good. I'd shorten the url to http://mirror.archlinux32.org
[01:48:41] <tyzoid> but looks good otherwise
[01:49:17] ChanServ changed topic of #archlinux-ports to: Porting Arch Linux to non-x86_64 architectures | https://lists.archlinux.org | Current efforts: preserving i686 at http://archlinux32.org | Channel logs: http://mirror.archlinux32.org
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[01:50:21] <tyzoid> looks good
[01:51:01] <fsckd> excellent :)
[01:52:52] <tyzoid> fsckd: My impression is that most archlinux-* channels are not logged on purpose
[01:52:59] -!- kerberizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[01:53:07] <tyzoid> I know that #archlinux has no logs
[01:53:25] <tyzoid> so I'm not sure what the courtesy is regarding setting up a logger
[01:53:35] <tyzoid> plus I've not been around IRC a lot
[01:54:14] <fsckd> i think freenode guidelines are to say somewhere that the channel is being logged.
[01:54:44] -!- kerberizer has joined #archlinux-ports
[01:55:00] <fsckd> and you are right, most #archlinux- channels are not publicly logged.
[01:58:07] <tyzoid> hunter2
[01:58:33] <eschwartz> tyzoid: nice password!
[01:59:24] <tyzoid> I know right?
[01:59:41] <tyzoid> It's the most secure one ever
[02:00:08] <eschwartz> nu-uh, alyptik uses that too
[02:00:20] <tyzoid> drats
[02:00:34] <tyzoid> time for a security upgrade!
[02:00:37] <tyzoid> hunter3
[02:00:52] <fsckd> that's my password. get your own :P
[02:01:10] <tyzoid> hunt3re
[02:01:11] <eschwartz> 2retnuh
[02:01:26] <tyzoid> outstripped2
[02:02:13] <eschwartz> uhagre2
[02:03:27] <tyzoid> erasure4
[02:04:13] <eschwartz> pretty sure my rot13 is more secure.
[02:04:47] <tyzoid> lol
[02:04:51] <tyzoid> Gotta encode it twice, though
[02:04:54] <tyzoid> double the securiteh
[02:08:14] <WarheadsSE> New password: alias rm=false
[03:17:31] r00t^2_ is now known as r00t^2
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[04:41:06] <drathir> WarheadsSE: hi, hi ^^ who i see...
[04:41:45] <drathir> wow moore known nicks even ;p
[04:45:52] <tyzoid> wb
[04:46:08] <drathir> tyzoid: thx
[04:46:25] <tyzoid> drathir: we pulled him from the archlinux-arm project, since they have some package building infrastructure in place
[04:46:48] <tyzoid> also, have you seen the forum? https://bbs.archlinux32.org
[04:47:17] <drathir> tyzoid: always good to se knowns nicks...
[04:47:33] <tyzoid> yup
[04:48:54] * drathir wonder if Arch Linux to Arch Linux 32 will be changed ?
[04:49:55] <drathir> and woold be nice to have link to portal too...
[04:50:02] <drathir> would*
[04:50:42] <tyzoid> Yup, I'm working on that
[04:51:46] <tyzoid> drathir: How's that?
[04:52:50] <drathir> tyzoid: also good to register archlinux32 channel in case this channel could be for dev talks and archlinux32 for general support eg.
[04:53:17] <tyzoid> drathir: I'm currently chillin' over there
[04:53:22] <tyzoid> nobody else there, though
[04:53:46] <drathir> that in case of bc ppl could take it and sometimes hard to get back channel...
[04:54:02] <tyzoid> problem is I don't have a bouncer
[04:54:10] <tyzoid> so we should get someone with a bouncer over there
[04:54:12] <drathir> yep working link to portal nicely...
[04:56:20] * drathir aldo wonder what mean dual iso?
[04:57:23] <drathir> and if there is x86_64 onboard its the same from archlinux iso?
[04:58:31] <tyzoid> it's a different build
[04:58:50] <tyzoid> so it's in theory the same packages, the build system/package list can be slightly different
[04:58:57] <tyzoid> and it has 32bit support
[04:59:08] <tyzoid> which is useful for many of our users who interface with both systems
[04:59:48] <tyzoid> dual basically means it has both i686 and x86_64 kernel + packages
[05:00:10] <tyzoid> it's a continuation of arch's old -dual.iso images
[05:00:13] <drathir> i see i guess good to mention that in some FAQ i guess to in case someone asking too...
[05:00:31] * drathir no wonder if its first asking person ;p
[05:00:40] <tyzoid> We had someone offer to host a mediawiki instance for us
[05:00:46] <tyzoid> but we thought it was a bit heavy handed
[05:00:57] <tyzoid> and no, you're not the first one to ask
[05:01:19] <tyzoid> it definately classifies as a frequently asked question
[05:04:12] <drathir> media wiki is great, bc works w/o flash/java script too...
[05:04:57] <drathir> its nice to have access fro lynx in case needed ;p
[05:05:09] <tyzoid> the guy who offered is asleep atm (UTC+2)
[05:05:30] <tyzoid> what's your tz?
[05:05:34] <tyzoid> I'm utc-4
[05:05:35] <drathir> not once that saved time...
[05:06:03] <tyzoid> well what is it without dst?
[05:06:14] <tyzoid> it's going to be that +1hr
[05:06:16] <drathir> 05:05 Wed Jun 21 05:05:56 CEST 2017
[05:06:33] <tyzoid> ah, so you're in central europe?
[05:06:43] <drathir> yep
[05:06:51] <tyzoid> you're UTC+2
[05:07:07] <tyzoid> you're either up really late or really early
[05:07:39] <drathir> tyzoid: vampires dont sleep ;p
[05:07:59] <tyzoid> Didn't know you were from transylvania
[05:08:08] <drathir> ^^
[05:08:20] <tyzoid> one of my professors was from there
[05:08:43] <tyzoid> Cool accent, but still able to be understood
[05:13:51] <drathir> nice i hope no bites students too much... ;p
[05:15:54] <tyzoid> nope, she was a great professor
[05:16:07] <tyzoid> I took a course with her twice
[05:16:25] <drathir> btw bulidbot have public builid logs?
[05:17:38] <tyzoid> are you referring to the build system we're developing for arch32?
[05:17:57] <drathir> correct...
[05:18:04] <tyzoid> not yet, but we're working on that
[05:18:09] <tyzoid> deep42thought is heading that charge
[05:18:56] <drathir> thats nice too...
[05:19:03] <tyzoid> we do have https://buildmaster.archlinux32.org
[05:20:21] <tyzoid> and https://eckner.net
[05:21:19] <drathir> thats good for now too have a look whats goin on...
[05:24:53] <tyzoid> And I assume you've read the discussion on the forum about testing infrastructure?
[05:25:08] <tyzoid> if not, I suggest you give that a read through.
[05:25:27] <tyzoid> It quickly summarizes several days of conversation here
[05:26:23] <drathir> interesting that veracrypt fail to build...
[05:27:41] <drathir> btw in future from portal to forum link would be nice too and in forum title change to Arch Linux 32 thats all for first fast look what i saw...
[05:27:46] <tyzoid> sometimes is missing sources and not an actual build problem
[05:27:57] <tyzoid> Regarding the portal: I don't control the homepage
[05:28:12] <tyzoid> I'm going to make a PR for it soon, once I get the news page up and set
[05:28:28] <tyzoid> thanks for pointing it out, though
[05:32:11] <drathir> only mention to take a look as possibly *todo-list*
[05:32:57] <drathir> as irc is logged that stay somewhere ;p
[05:35:14] <drathir> and about test mostly usser most useful, bc check if app stat not always mean its working... feedback from users very useful always...
[05:37:39] <drathir> bc testing every package most like insane to do...
[05:38:15] <tyzoid> well we think we can get 100% package coverage at some point
[05:38:25] <tyzoid> even if it is a basic check like 'we can get version information'
[05:38:33] <tyzoid> that would at least verify the application loads correctly
[05:38:49] <tyzoid> eventually we'd want to do regression testing
[05:38:56] <tyzoid> where the bugs we get influence new test cases
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[05:44:13] <drathir> even namcap sometimes gets wrong...
[05:47:44] * drathir so far have small local repo with yaourt+repo-add for often used packages its save a lot of time than build on every device...
[05:49:15] <tyzoid> I don't have that many packages from the AUR I regularly use
[05:49:28] <tyzoid> the big one, nodm, was moved to mainly recently
[05:49:38] <tyzoid> s/mainly/mainline/
[05:50:25] <drathir> mostly like thunderbird/firefox nightly psi-plus similar...
[05:51:04] <tyzoid> ah
[05:51:40] <drathir> megasync dropbox spideroak
[05:52:41] <drathir> otter-browser-git also interesting...
[05:56:30] <drathir> tyzoid: https://ncry.pt not much...
[05:56:54] <drathir> tyzoid: thats some of last buid...
[05:57:04] <drathir> build*
[05:57:58] <tyzoid> nice
[06:05:58] <phillid> Speaking about testing, will archlinux32 have its own set of testing repos, or rely on the x86_64 packages being tested on the official distro?
[06:07:15] <tyzoid> we already have our own testing repos
[06:07:31] <tyzoid> we just promoted our first set of built packages out of archlinux32/testing to archlinux32/*
[06:07:52] <tyzoid> http://32.arlm.tyzoid.com
[06:08:31] <phillid> Pretty good
[06:08:38] <tyzoid> phillid: we'd rather not rely on the assumption that if it works on x86_64, that it works on i686
[06:08:43] <phillid> Excellent
[06:09:00] <phillid> How are you all going for build slaves?
[06:09:06] <tyzoid> getting there
[06:09:11] <tyzoid> deep42thought is working on that
[06:09:24] <tyzoid> and rewbycraft has offered his openstack cluster for builds
[06:09:34] <phillid> I've mentioned it before, and I'll reiterate, if you need any compute power, I have a powerful workstation
[06:09:37] <phillid> Oh nice openstack
[06:09:45] <tyzoid> :)
[06:10:18] <tyzoid> That said, if a corporate sponsor wants to give us a little server time for stuff, that would be nice
[06:10:25] <phillid> Ha
[06:10:30] * tyzoid looks at archlinux-arm
[06:10:54] <phillid> If building large packages proves to be a difficulty I can have a look at them for you
[06:11:15] <phillid> I don't know what the openstack servers are like for power
[06:11:24] <phillid> I presume they are not to be sneezed at anyway
[06:11:40] <tyzoid> He's got plenty of ram on his machine
[06:11:48] <tyzoid> but we'll keep that in mind for the future
[06:12:22] <tyzoid> also: I'm not sure if you've seen the discussion on testing on the forum yet or not
[06:12:26] <tyzoid> it's worth a read if you haven't
[06:12:31] <phillid> I have a large amount of RAM and two 8-core Xeons
[06:12:35] <phillid> I will check the forum now
[06:12:44] <tyzoid> https://bbs.archlinux.org
[06:12:50] <tyzoid> we don't have a link from the homepage yet :/
[06:12:57] <tyzoid> archlinux32.org*
[06:12:59] <tyzoid> my bad
[06:13:24] * tyzoid scolds his fingers
[06:14:24] <phillid> Heh
[06:14:47] <phillid> I suppose testing the iso wouldn't be a bad idea
[06:14:51] <phillid> Automated, that is
[06:15:09] <phillid> We could even instrument tests to check that the ISO can be used to boot and install arch, though that will be limited in capability
[06:16:23] <tyzoid> That's what our idea was for leveraging r00t^2's aif-ng project
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[06:16:52] <tyzoid> we had some ideas for automating a virtualbox deployment barring that
[06:17:04] <tyzoid> but we'd ideally want to not need a custom iso to do the test
[06:17:08] <phillid> The problem that I see with that is that arch was never meant to be installed automatically, so the testing will be limited in what it will show
[06:17:18] <phillid> However, it cannot *hurt* as a sanity check
[06:17:41] <tyzoid> phillid: Arch may not have been designed to be installed manually, but in a virtual environment, the commands shouldn't ever change
[06:17:47] <tyzoid> especially as we control the package names
[06:18:28] <tyzoid> and we're not trying to install a complete system, we just want to check to see if we can get a pacstrap -i /mnt base base-devel grub system to boot
[06:18:28] <phillid> Hmm fair, I suppose
[06:20:28] <tyzoid> phillid: I'm wondering if we should also bring up the testing infrastructure idea in #archlinux-projects?
[06:20:48] <phillid> Not sure
[06:21:15] <tyzoid> I'll wait on that for now
[06:21:22] <drathir> tyzoid: but not give any default curses installersstarted from console is nice option, but full console install like arch have i guess is the fastest one solution...
[06:22:11] <tyzoid> drathir: We're not intending on changing the install process right now
[06:22:25] <tyzoid> We're trying to stay as close to arch as possible for the forseeable future
[06:22:41] <drathir> thats good to hear...
[06:22:54] <phillid> inb4 openrc/runit
[06:23:00] <tyzoid> lol
[06:23:01] <phillid> 😉
[06:23:11] <tyzoid> we're still planning on defaulting to systemd
[06:23:23] <drathir> bc with custom littlescripts even offline installation of x86_64 isnt a problem...
[06:23:50] <drathir> rc config was nice...
[06:24:58] <drathir> yea moving for some non nsa approved soluttion a lot of extra work needed...
[06:25:05] <phillid> You always have the option of running alternative init systems, just that getting support will be impossible
[06:25:12] <phillid> As a user, I mean
[06:25:47] <phillid> But that is off-topic for this channel, more of a discussion for #arch-openrc
[06:26:16] <drathir> phillid: there is even project with pure bash init system^^
[06:26:23] <tyzoid> That's bound to get complicated in terms of support
[06:26:24] <phillid> wow
[06:26:35] <phillid> tyzoid, definitely, hence Arch Linux supports only one init system
[06:26:37] <tyzoid> what channels should a user go to if they're installing a 32bit openrc channel?
[06:26:39] <phillid> I don't know how gentoo does it
[06:26:46] <tyzoid> bleh, it's late
[06:26:48] <phillid> heh
[06:27:23] <tyzoid> phillid: should they go to arch-openrc? arch-ports? arch32?
[06:27:31] <phillid> Yes
[06:27:31] <tyzoid> arch main channel?
[06:27:35] <phillid> Hell no
[06:27:42] <phillid> arch-openrc should cover it
[06:27:45] <tyzoid> figured no on the last one
[06:27:55] <tyzoid> okay, good to know
[06:28:13] <phillid> I sit in #arch-openrc to help out sometimes, but I don't know if they will keep their binary mirrors doing i686
[06:28:19] <phillid> I should ask them
[06:28:56] <tyzoid> there's only like 5 people in that channel :P
[06:29:11] <phillid> \o/
[06:29:19] <phillid> Clearly a very popular movement 😉
[06:29:22] <tyzoid> lol
[06:29:33] <tyzoid> and we account for 40% of the channel
[06:29:36] <phillid> Ha
[06:29:37] <tyzoid> 50% of the non-bots in the channel
[06:29:48] <phillid> I compile openrc from source anyway rather than using their binary mirrors
[06:30:53] <drathir> phillid: but they have own repo too, bc 'half of' os need to be rebuild w/o systemd dependencies...
[06:31:13] <tyzoid> a,k.a. how chromium depends on systemd
[06:31:15] <tyzoid> because udev
[06:31:32] <phillid> I have never used chromium under that regime
[06:31:46] <tyzoid> $ pacman -Si chromium
[06:31:57] <drathir> chrome not usable for me too much mess with whole os...
[06:32:04] <phillid> I use other browsers
[06:32:18] <tyzoid> I switch between chrome and firefox
[06:32:24] <tyzoid> firefox has had some issues recently
[06:32:45] <tyzoid> ff53 has a bug which dramatically reduces performance when the system is swapping/low on ram
[06:32:58] <phillid> Strange
[06:33:03] <phillid> Download some more RAM I guess
[06:33:03] <tyzoid> so I switched back to chromium
[06:33:06] <tyzoid> lol yeah
[06:33:10] * phillid wanders off to catch a train
[06:33:12] <tyzoid> It's my work machine, thuough
[06:33:22] * drathir think its at least insane that browser overwrite Your dns to own ones and layter explains Yourself that was a bug ;p
[06:33:34] <drathir> later*
[06:34:01] <tyzoid> later
[06:34:31] * drathir usinh ff with 600+tabs ;p
[06:35:25] <drathir> on 4Gram+8G swap ;p its not a speed of light but usable...
[06:35:48] <tyzoid> yeah, but I've got a vagrant machine running all the time
[06:35:52] <tyzoid> plus slack is a memory hog
[06:35:54] <tyzoid> and thunderbird
[06:36:10] <tyzoid> plus at least 10 tabs at any time
[06:36:26] <drathir> tyzoid: oh vm ram needed...
[06:36:58] <drathir> but still ff should using much less ram than chrome...
[06:37:07] <tyzoid> It uses about the same
[06:37:13] <tyzoid> chrome handles low ram better than ff, though
[06:37:20] <tyzoid> the whole browser doesn't freeze and fail
[06:37:54] * drathir always turn off multiprocess that e10s bc in my opinion its make it heavy...
[06:38:30] <drathir> that could be connected with e10 i suppose... ^^
[06:39:20] <drathir> no idea why but in my opinion it works really slower if enabled on low spec...
[06:39:55] <drathir> tyzoid: try to "export MOZ_USE_OMTC=1" in console...
[06:40:15] <tyzoid> I can try that once I get into work tomorrow
[06:40:54] <drathir> tyzoid: it force up gpu rendering in some cases really speedup...
[06:41:05] <drathir> but that depend on hw...
[06:41:09] <tyzoid> ah, no gpu
[06:41:31] <tyzoid> integrated graphics
[06:41:40] <drathir> new i915 counting too...
[06:41:45] <tyzoid> The machine is old, but I'm an intern that's leaving soon
[06:41:52] <tyzoid> so I haven't bothered to ask for a new one
[06:41:55] <drathir> oh i see...
[06:43:54] <drathir> btw speaking about vm reminded me probably time to upgrade pfsense and openbsd ;p
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[06:53:42] <tyzoid> wb deep42thought
[06:53:49] <deep42thought> Hi!
[06:53:58] <tyzoid> can you add another CNAME record?
[06:54:08] <deep42thought> sure, which?
[06:54:10] <deep42thought> I'm currently reading the log
[06:54:10] <tyzoid> news.archlinux32.org to 32.arlm.tyzoid.com
[06:54:15] <tyzoid> I haven't announced it yet
[06:55:10] <deep42thought> done
[06:56:11] <tyzoid> sweet
[06:56:44] <tyzoid> http://news.archlinux32.org should be up, now
[06:57:33] <tyzoid> lmk what you think deep42thought
[06:57:56] <deep42thought> nice :-)
[06:58:05] <tyzoid> I have yet to support bbcode
[06:58:10] <tyzoid> but that shouldn't be much of a problem
[06:59:37] <deep42thought> btw: saving buildlogs is in the todo list
[07:04:45] <tyzoid> deep42thought: To make an announcement/news post, just make a thread in the announcements subforum
[07:04:49] <tyzoid> I've linked the two
[07:05:06] <tyzoid> currently I don't support bbcode
[07:05:10] <tyzoid> but that's in the todo list for me
[07:05:57] <tyzoid> and Bluewind (Florian) over one #archlinux-devops seems to support the automated testing idea, suggesting I push it to the archlinux-devops mailing list
[07:06:06] <tyzoid> and perhaps the archlinux-projects mailing list
[07:09:00] <deep42thought> that's good
[07:09:31] <deep42thought> if we can develop some testing procedure together with x86_64, it might get more serious than i686-only
[07:26:13] <brtln> sorry guys, I'm too lazy to register on your forums
[07:26:19] <brtln> have you looked at openqa?
[07:27:00] <brtln> that's what suse developed and fedora started using too for smoke tests
[07:27:15] <brtln> afaik it also supports installation from console
[07:30:03] <deep42thought> fsckd: the irc-log bot is from there: git@github.com:excid3/logbot.git
[07:30:32] <deep42thought> btw, the log user is titus_livius
[07:32:09] <brtln> also while on it, archiso also allows to specify script to download and run after booting
[07:32:19] <tyzoid> thanks for the heads up on both counts brtln
[07:32:30] <tyzoid> Ideally we wouldn't need to make a special iso for it
[07:32:39] <tyzoid> but we'll keep that in mind
[07:32:44] <brtln> that's an argument passed to kernel/initramfs
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[07:39:37] -!- deep42thought has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[08:01:46] <tyzoid> deep42thought: BBCode support on the news feed is complete.
[08:02:04] <tyzoid> I'm heading to bed now, seeing as it's 2am local time
[08:02:20] <tyzoid> good morning, and good night all
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[09:29:36] <deep42thought> the problem I had so far with the logs is, that some errors (inside staging-i686-build) do not produce a log file at all: e.g. an unknown pgp key
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[11:13:56] <deep42thought> ok, build-logs are now available at https://buildmaster.archlinux32.org
[11:16:32] -!- deep42thought has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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[12:15:06] <jelle> o/
[13:33:48] <rewbycraft> deepthought: Are the logs new or did I miss them entirely when looking for them on the buildmaster?
[13:37:24] <tyzoid> The logs are new, from what I read: rewbycraft
[13:38:18] <rewbycraft> All right
[13:38:34] <rewbycraft> Also, I like news.*
[13:38:40] <rewbycraft> Little note
[13:38:40] <tyzoid> rewbycraft: Since you have administrator rights on the forum, you can post on news
[13:38:49] <tyzoid> :)
[13:38:52] <rewbycraft> It doesn't like beign resized too much
[13:39:12] <tyzoid> ah, right
[13:39:13] <tyzoid> one sec
[13:39:18] <rewbycraft> It does this: https://ss.roelf.org
[13:40:00] <tyzoid> rewbycraft: fixed
[13:40:21] <rewbycraft> Still does the same for me
[13:40:25] <tyzoid> try refreshing
[13:40:28] <tyzoid> I suspect a caching
[13:40:29] <rewbycraft> I did
[13:40:31] <tyzoid> caching* issue
[13:40:37] <tyzoid> try incognito?
[13:40:46] <rewbycraft> I did
[13:41:16] <rewbycraft> Le'ts try anohter browser
[13:41:28] <rewbycraft> Nope, still broken on other browser
[13:41:35] <tyzoid> http://i.imgur.com
[13:41:38] <tyzoid> This is what I see
[13:41:50] <rewbycraft> Yeah. Look at the top bar
[13:41:56] <rewbycraft> The text is grey and underneath it
[13:41:58] <tyzoid> There's no helping the top bar
[13:42:07] <tyzoid> that breaks on arch's own page
[13:42:15] <tyzoid> so without changing layout it's not going to work
[13:42:16] <rewbycraft> Huh
[13:42:18] <rewbycraft> So it does
[13:42:27] <tyzoid> I was referring to how the date was cut off of the side of your screen in the original screenshot
[13:42:31] <tyzoid> _that_ was fixed
[13:42:34] <rewbycraft> Ah that yeah
[13:42:43] <rewbycraft> Also, I'm slightly disappointed in the arch webdevs for the topbar thign
[13:42:54] <tyzoid> It's a relatively simple thing to overlook
[13:43:02] <jelle> rewbycraft: which webdevs
[13:43:03] <tyzoid> it uses floats, and they don't wrap well
[13:43:04] <rewbycraft> Yeah, but with mobile suers nowadays
[13:43:07] <rewbycraft> *users
[13:43:14] <rewbycraft> You can tell I'm barely awake. ;)
[13:43:25] <jelle> you mean resizing it to minimal width? :p
[13:43:27] <tyzoid> If you want, I can make a mobile design for the arch32* stuff
[13:43:37] <tyzoid> jelle, look at http://i.imgur.com
[13:43:37] <rewbycraft> Up to you ty
[13:43:44] <tyzoid> you can see the nav links wrap under the header
[13:43:50] <jelle> hmm 404
[13:43:55] <jelle> tyzoid: yes
[13:43:57] <rewbycraft> (It does that on the main website too)
[13:44:21] <jelle> if you have a patch, I'm interested in fixing it on the main website :-) (That would be awesome!)
[13:44:43] <rewbycraft> Oh btw, tyzoid, if you ever have spare time. Would be amazing if news* had an RSS feed
[13:44:51] <tyzoid> sure thing, def will do
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[13:44:59] * rewbycraft goes and finds some "breakfast"
[13:45:06] <rewbycraft> o/ deep42thought
[13:45:06] * jelle guesses it needs some media queries css magic voodooo
[13:45:12] <rewbycraft> Probably
[13:45:52] <tyzoid> jelle: It's more of making the height not fixed and letting it flex
[13:46:00] <tyzoid> It shouldn't* require media queries
[13:46:03] <jelle> ok
[13:46:17] <tyzoid> but media would specifically fix display artifacts on mobile devices
[13:46:36] <deep42thought> Hi all!
[13:46:46] <tyzoid> hi deep42thought
[13:46:52] <rewbycraft> Heyo
[13:48:12] <rewbycraft> Hey deep42thought, I was nosing through the build logs a bit
[13:48:32] <deep42thought> didn't have a look myself yet
[13:48:43] <rewbycraft> A bunch of fails have to do with mirror.archlinux32.org
[13:48:55] <rewbycraft> There's a few "Maximum file size exceeded" errors
[13:48:58] <rewbycraft> And a few 404 errors
[13:49:06] <rewbycraft> So I think we've got some race-conditions
[13:49:28] <deep42thought> I wanted to check the sanity of the mirror first
[13:49:36] <rewbycraft> Probably also a good idea
[13:49:47] <deep42thought> I was recently working on the db-update script and probably messed up data bases and the like
[13:49:56] <rewbycraft> Yeah
[13:50:01] <rewbycraft> Look at http://buildmaster.archlinux32.org for example
[13:50:53] <tyzoid> rewbycraft: Is an atom feed fine? or would you prefer the older rss format?
[13:51:04] <rewbycraft> atom works too
[13:51:06] <tyzoid> okay
[13:51:13] <rewbycraft> Just some format rss readers usually accept
[13:51:28] <tyzoid> I'll look at getting that up tonight my time, tomorrow morning your time
[13:51:38] <rewbycraft> Is fine
[13:51:44] <rewbycraft> Nothing on there yet anyway
[13:52:27] <tyzoid> well it's nice to be notified when something is :)
[13:52:38] <rewbycraft> Yeah
[13:54:01] <fsckd> deep42thought: thank you :) (re logbot link)
[13:54:36] <deep42thought> fsckd: be warned, it sometimes logs out (wihtout crashing) and I have no idea why / how to fix it
[13:54:58] <fsckd> oh
[13:55:12] <deep42thought> but it's some short python script
[13:55:27] <rewbycraft> You can also log with znc, in anybody uses that
[13:59:28] <tyzoid> jelle & rewbycraft: I've fixed the nav bar on the news page
[13:59:36] <tyzoid> feel free to canabalize the css
[13:59:44] <jelle> tyzoid: oh god a patch?
[13:59:46] <jelle> *got
[14:00:03] <tyzoid> I use different classes on the news feed, so when I patch the forum, I'll give you that patch
[14:00:10] <tyzoid> the forum uses the same classes as the arch website
[14:00:33] <jelle> ah yeah
[14:00:48] <tyzoid> :)
[14:01:02] <tyzoid> timeline on that is my tonight eastern daylight time
[14:01:25] <jelle> np, it's broken a long time on archlinux.org :-)
[14:01:31] tyzoid is now known as tyzoid_afk
[14:05:25] <rewbycraft> \o/ for fixed navbar
[14:08:21] <jelle> can't view the site here hmm
[14:08:34] <rewbycraft> Which site?
[14:08:39] <jelle> archlinux32.org
[14:08:53] <rewbycraft> It's not down
[14:09:04] <jelle> !isitdown archlinux32.org
[14:09:07] <rewbycraft> Maybe you have broken ipv6?
[14:09:10] <rewbycraft> Also, no phrik here
[14:09:14] <jelle> hmm nah I don't have ipv6
[14:09:18] <jelle> I'll convince phrik
[14:09:25] -!- phrik has joined #archlinux-ports
[14:09:34] <jelle> !isitdown archlinux32.org
[14:09:35] <rewbycraft> Well phrik.
[14:09:36] <phrik> jelle: Yay, archlinux32.org is up. // isitup.org
[14:12:42] <WarheadsSE> deep42thought: ping from ALARM/plugbuild Dev
[14:13:11] <deep42thought> Hi WarheadsSE
[14:13:15] <rewbycraft> jelle: That means that all the sad and stupid quotes of mine in phrik are also here... oh dear
[14:13:52] -!- p71 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[14:13:58] <WarheadsSE> Seems someone wanted is to discuss automation
[14:14:09] <deep42thought> :-)
[14:14:10] <WarheadsSE> s/is/us/
[14:14:27] <rewbycraft> I think because both -arm and arch32 do automated building
[14:14:34] <deep42thought> yes
[14:14:35] <rewbycraft> And maybe both projects can learn from eachother
[14:14:48] <deep42thought> I'd be more interested in details of the build process, currently
[14:14:52] <WarheadsSE> Have you delved into the plugbuild system before?
[14:15:04] <deep42thought> I tried, but I'm not fluent in perl :-/
[14:15:08] <WarheadsSE> Ah
[14:15:17] <rewbycraft> I tried too
[14:15:21] <rewbycraft> But perl is black magic to me
[14:15:57] <WarheadsSE> Basic concept: index every pkgbase, and all dependency tree, build in cyclic order based on that
[14:16:17] <deep42thought> ok
[14:16:26] <deep42thought> what dependencies do you take into account?
[14:16:29] <WarheadsSE> If a build of, say, ICU fails, anything depending on it will wait until it is cleared, then automatically build in a farm
[14:16:42] <rewbycraft> That makes sense
[14:16:52] <deep42thought> yeah, it's pretty much the same here
[14:16:52] <WarheadsSE> Everything in the tree, all the way to glibc
[14:17:14] <deep42thought> pk, let me rephrase that: how do you _get_ the dependency tree?
[14:17:17] <rewbycraft> So you're representing the whole package list as a tree
[14:17:18] <WarheadsSE> So the entire dep tree through stacking
[14:17:32] <deep42thought> s/pk/ok/
[14:17:33] <rewbycraft> But how do you break the cycles to enfore that property of a tree structure?
[14:17:38] <WarheadsSE> We've got a fancy state query
[14:18:01] <rewbycraft> I'm tempted to try and write a script to turn everything into a tree...
[14:18:03] <WarheadsSE> All relevant information is imported from the pkgbase into the database
[14:18:57] <rewbycraft> Hmm
[14:19:08] <rewbycraft> You're giving me a few ideas here
[14:19:20] <rewbycraft> How do you get the list of packages though?
[14:19:25] <deep42thought> so you parse the output of "makepkg --printsrc" or something?
[14:20:17] <rewbycraft> To be honest, I'd represent everything as an acyclic DAG
[14:20:33] <rewbycraft> Would make more sense in my mind
[14:21:26] <WarheadsSE> deep42thought: something like that. I can't walk the code with you at the moment, but I could later
[14:21:50] <deep42thought> ok, np
[14:24:12] <rewbycraft> Hey deep42thought, how are you getting a list of packages to build?
[14:24:27] <rewbycraft> I've got an idea for something I want to test
[14:24:32] <deep42thought> git
[14:24:42] <rewbycraft> You just clone the ABS repo?
[14:24:54] <deep42thought> the svn2git ones
[14:25:15] <deep42thought> git://git.archlinux.org
[14:25:23] <rewbycraft> Thanks
[14:25:34] <rewbycraft> I wanna try to see if I can turn that into a DAG of packages
[14:25:57] <deep42thought> it's not acyclic
[14:26:05] <rewbycraft> An acyclic dag, that is
[14:26:08] <deep42thought> but I have it as a directed graph
[14:26:22] <rewbycraft> Yeah. But these exercises give me better insight into problems
[14:26:26] <deep42thought> :-)
[14:26:46] <rewbycraft> I sometimes just have to go and try it
[14:26:55] <rewbycraft> Who knows, maybe I do something useful
[14:29:15] <rewbycraft> Also, if I can figure a good way to turn the package list into a DAG, that could simplify the build code
[14:29:28] <rewbycraft> Well, the buildmaster
[14:31:55] <WarheadsSE> Yup, ALARM uses the git repo
[14:32:31] <WarheadsSE> rewbycraft: you mean like the samba spaghetti monster :P
[14:33:01] <rewbycraft> I don't know what that refers to
[14:33:05] <deep42thought> I hope my pasta tastes well :-D
[14:34:56] <deep42thought> btw: I messed up the mirror (forgot to copy over the *.files.tar.gz)
[14:35:23] <rewbycraft> Lemme know when you fix it, i'll update my mirror
[14:35:31] <deep42thought> ok
[14:40:03] <WarheadsSE> We also use rsync push
[14:40:08] <WarheadsSE> (so that can't happen)
[14:40:39] <deep42thought> I know, but I think rsync push can't prevent you from messing up the source itself ;-)
[14:40:51] <deep42thought> (that's what I did)
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[14:57:54] <tyzoid> alright, back
[14:58:17] <deep42thought> welcome back
[15:05:30] <rewbycraft> Excellent, got a script slowly processing the repository into a directory of SRCINFOs https://ss.roelf.org
[15:07:17] <tyzoid> rewbycraft: Dat transparent background
[15:07:29] <rewbycraft> Yeah, it breaks with the screenshot tool
[15:07:47] <rewbycraft> The tool actually captures the the transparency
[15:07:55] <rewbycraft> Instead of also capturing my background
[15:08:06] <tyzoid> That's a script for grabbing the sources for packages, right?
[15:08:19] <rewbycraft> No, it just runs makepkg --printsrcinfo on every package
[15:08:23] <tyzoid> ah
[15:08:32] <rewbycraft> And puts the result in $HOME/srcinfos/$pkg
[15:08:38] <tyzoid> nice
[15:08:53] <rewbycraft> Those files contain all the dependency/provides information
[15:09:02] <deep42thought> run 'CARCH=i686 makepkg --printsrcinfo' instead
[15:09:08] <rewbycraft> Which is the info I care about, and I don't have to parse the PKGBUILD
[15:09:10] <rewbycraft> Ah
[15:09:11] <rewbycraft> Will do
[15:09:22] <deep42thought> but it's broken for some packages (and won't be fixed)
[15:09:33] <tyzoid> damn
[15:09:40] <tyzoid> Does that mean we need to patch makepkg
[15:09:45] <deep42thought> no
[15:09:56] <deep42thought> this just means, we need to source the PKGBUILD instead
[15:10:03] <deep42thought> at least, that's what was sugested
[15:10:03] <tyzoid> ...
[15:10:14] <tyzoid> Whelp, there goes security out the window
[15:10:25] <deep42thought> ...
[15:10:37] <tyzoid> I don't think there's a way we can reasonably audit each modification to a pkgbuild
[15:11:20] <tyzoid> basically means we'll need a container/vm for every package we need to build
[15:11:30] <rewbycraft> That is doable
[15:11:39] <deep42thought> https://bugs.archlinux.org
[15:11:39] <phrik> Title: FS#54413 : [gens] uses unsupported way of setting different dependencies for 32 vs 64 bit (at bugs.archlinux.org)
[15:11:46] <rewbycraft> It's really easy even
[15:11:58] <deep42thought> rewbycraft: but slow
[15:12:00] <tyzoid> It is, but making and destroying those containers can take a bit of time, depending on whether they're containers or vms
[15:12:02] <rewbycraft> Nah
[15:12:06] <rewbycraft> Is really quick and easy
[15:12:08] <rewbycraft> Let me explain
[15:12:17] <rewbycraft> You have a directory with the "reference" rootfs
[15:12:18] <tyzoid> for 2000+ packages to create/destroy?
[15:12:27] <rewbycraft> You mount a tmpfs to another dir
[15:12:38] <rewbycraft> And then overlaymount the tmpfs and the reference rootsf
[15:12:40] <rewbycraft> *rootfs
[15:12:50] <deep42thought> isn't chroot enough?
[15:12:50] <rewbycraft> That's 0.5s per package
[15:12:59] <rewbycraft> Yeah, but that resets the chroot every package
[15:13:02] <tyzoid> deep42thought: It is, but mounting a tmpfs doesn't persist
[15:13:19] <rewbycraft> Yeah, if you just unmount and remount the tmpfs between each package
[15:13:20] <tyzoid> the issue is containerization
[15:13:25] <rewbycraft> You effectively get a clean fs every time
[15:13:27] <tyzoid> It's the sourcing of the file that worries me
[15:13:32] <rewbycraft> systemd-nspawn
[15:13:39] <rewbycraft> Is what I'm thinking
[15:13:42] <tyzoid> sweet
[15:13:53] <tyzoid> Never used it, so I'm not familiar with it's capabilities
[15:13:59] <tyzoid> but if that works, great!
[15:14:00] <rewbycraft> Or systemd-run. I forget which one's more relevant here
[15:14:08] <rewbycraft> It's basically container stuff built into systemd
[15:14:12] <deep42thought> I'm not convinced, but it's on the todo
[15:14:26] <rewbycraft> So if we combine that with an overlay'd rootfs, we should be good
[15:14:36] <rewbycraft> That rootfs trick, btw, is how the liveiso works
[15:14:42] <rewbycraft> It has a read-only rootfs
[15:14:53] <deep42thought> currently the one package which fails (and is blacklisted due to this) is hard coded white listed
[15:14:56] <rewbycraft> And then overlaymounts a tmpfs to give you the ability to write to the fs
[15:15:07] <deep42thought> I don't see, why we want the overlay
[15:15:09] <rewbycraft> But really, the rootfs is readonly
[15:15:11] <deep42thought> it's all in git anyway
[15:15:21] <tyzoid> deep42thought: it's to keep the build machine clean
[15:15:27] <rewbycraft> So you don't have to copy the whole rootfs when you're doing a new container/chroot
[15:15:32] <deep42thought> and archbuild creates a bunch of files anyway, so you have to clean one way or the other
[15:15:32] <rewbycraft> Could you copy it? Sure
[15:15:35] <tyzoid> basically you chroot into a tmpfs on overlayroot
[15:15:43] <rewbycraft> Yeah
[15:15:47] <rewbycraft> And you can just discard the tmpfs
[15:15:48] <tyzoid> deep42thought: unmounting the tmpfs basically releases ram to the system
[15:15:55] <tyzoid> the system deals with it pretty quickly
[15:15:55] <rewbycraft> Yup
[15:16:00] <rewbycraft> It's easy and cheap
[15:16:02] <deep42thought> I'd just 'git clean', ... and then chroot into packages/.../repos/extra-whatever/
[15:16:17] <tyzoid> git clean doesn't do what you think it does, afaik
[15:16:19] <rewbycraft> deepthought, do you know what we mean with overlayfs?
[15:16:29] <deep42thought> yes
[15:16:40] <deep42thought> at least I think so ;-)
[15:16:47] <rewbycraft> What are you thinking of when we say that?
[15:16:50] <tyzoid> It won't discard any modifications
[15:16:57] <tyzoid> you'd want git clean && git reset --hard HEAD
[15:17:17] <deep42thought> you have two file systems on top of each other, one is ro (and usually huge), the other is rw (and in ram and usually much smaller)
[15:17:24] <tyzoid> exactly
[15:17:25] <rewbycraft> Yeah
[15:17:27] <deep42thought> tyzoid: that's what I do
[15:17:37] <rewbycraft> Okay, so we're talking about the same setup
[15:18:00] <tyzoid> deep42thought: Chrooting into the overlay allows us to build in an environment, and completely discard it when we're done
[15:18:02] <tyzoid> at virtually no cost
[15:18:05] <tyzoid> that's the benefit
[15:18:05] <rewbycraft> ^
[15:18:16] <rewbycraft> Yup, no need toc lean the env
[15:18:20] <rewbycraft> Just chuck the tmpfs
[15:18:32] <deep42thought> currently I think If I might just switch to bare git repos and do 'git archive's into a tmpdir
[15:18:53] <deep42thought> hmm, I'll think about your idea
[15:18:55] <tyzoid> not sure what that'd get you
[15:19:01] <deep42thought> speed
[15:19:14] <deep42thought> and sanity
[15:19:16] <tyzoid> yeah, but you still have to clean up the tmpfs/ramfs when you're done
[15:19:17] <rewbycraft> vs our solution which is essentially free?
[15:19:41] <deep42thought> yes, but you assume a clean git tree in the beginning
[15:19:42] <tyzoid> I'm strongly with rewbycraft on this one
[15:19:56] <rewbycraft> Just have the git tree on the ro rootfs
[15:19:56] <tyzoid> Security-wise, it provides several strong guarantees
[15:20:00] <rewbycraft> No need to clone it
[15:20:04] <deep42thought> yes, I don't say I won't use it - I just need to think about it
[15:20:10] <rewbycraft> tyzoid: For security, I'd prefer systemd's thing above straight chroot
[15:20:10] <tyzoid> :)
[15:20:19] <tyzoid> that's what I thought we were talking about
[15:20:22] <rewbycraft> sysd also isolates a bunch of network and pid stuff
[15:20:28] <rewbycraft> You keep saying chroot
[15:20:30] <tyzoid> using the systemd container inside the overlay
[15:20:35] <rewbycraft> Ah okay
[15:20:36] <rewbycraft> Good
[15:20:44] <tyzoid> that's what I meant by chroot
[15:20:49] <rewbycraft> Ah okay
[15:20:53] <rewbycraft> I thought you meant an actual chroot
[15:20:57] <tyzoid> nah
[15:21:01] <rewbycraft> Which, yes, isolates the fs. But not much else
[15:21:41] <tyzoid> hey rewbycraft: Didn't get to see, does my solution for the news page nav work for you?
[15:22:21] <rewbycraft> It does
[15:22:27] <tyzoid> sweet
[15:22:44] <rewbycraft> Also, tyzoid, if we've got btrfs as the drive for the build slaves, you can do this: https://wiki.archlinux.org
[15:22:45] <phrik> Title: systemd-nspawn - ArchWiki (at wiki.archlinux.org)
[15:22:52] <tyzoid> ehh
[15:23:04] <rewbycraft> It basically handles all the overlay and tmpfs stuff directly
[15:23:19] <tyzoid> I'd only use btrfs if the machine is temporary in nature
[15:23:24] <rewbycraft> Fair enough
[15:23:28] <tyzoid> that is, if we can quickly spawn another one
[15:23:28] <rewbycraft> Could be a second partition
[15:23:34] <tyzoid> I had a friend that had btrfs as root
[15:23:42] <tyzoid> and dealing with btrfs corruption was a nightmare
[15:23:45] <rewbycraft> Hmh
[15:23:51] <tyzoid> much worse than ext4
[15:23:57] <rewbycraft> But just using btrfs on a partition to build stuff on shouldn't be too bad
[15:24:10] <tyzoid> if it's a cache drive in a vm, sure
[15:24:17] <rewbycraft> Just a suggestion anyway
[15:24:17] <tyzoid> but not if there's actual critical data on it
[15:24:30] <rewbycraft> Scripting the tmpfs+overlay option isn't hard either
[15:24:36] <rewbycraft> I just figured this had it built-in
[15:24:38] <tyzoid> I much prefer tmpfs
[15:24:41] <tyzoid> but up to you
[15:24:44] <rewbycraft> Works for me
[15:25:06] <deep42thought> I'd also prefer tmpfs over btrfs
[15:25:19] <rewbycraft> Was just a suggestion
[15:25:26] <rewbycraft> I just noticed it had that feature in nspawn
[15:25:27] <tyzoid> It was a good idea
[15:25:35] <rewbycraft> But if you wanna script it with tmpfs, is fine with me
[15:25:41] <rewbycraft> Same end-result anyway
[15:25:47] <tyzoid> but I much prefer enforcing the transitory nature of creating a tmpfs and destroying it ourselves
[15:25:59] <rewbycraft> I can see the point there
[15:26:51] <tyzoid> So just curious, English isn't either of your native languages, is it?
[15:27:01] <rewbycraft> Not mine, no
[15:27:08] <deep42thought> same here
[15:27:18] <rewbycraft> Just you ty
[15:27:29] <tyzoid> That's what I thought. Kudos on your mastry on the language
[15:27:37] <deep42thought> we can switch to german at any time ;-)
[15:27:43] <tyzoid> If I knew german
[15:27:48] <rewbycraft> I dunno german
[15:27:54] <tyzoid> Took one semester back in grade 7
[15:27:54] <rewbycraft> Okay, that's false
[15:27:56] <rewbycraft> I know it a little
[15:28:16] <rewbycraft> But mostly because it's fairly similar to Dutch and because I live nearish to the border
[15:29:26] <tyzoid> growing up here in the US, I'm disappointed that we don't learn more languages
[15:29:49] <deep42thought> tyzoid: "talking" in english is a lot easier, when you have working internet access to a dictionary ;-)
[15:30:15] <tyzoid> lol
[15:30:26] <rewbycraft> (He's not wrong)
[15:30:35] <tyzoid> Yeah. The extent of language education in the US is pretty abysmal
[15:30:53] <tyzoid> If we take a language, it's a joke of a course in high school
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[15:32:37] <rewbycraft> deep42thought: Did you fix the archive yet?
[15:32:41] <rewbycraft> Er. repository
[15:32:46] <deep42thought> its in progress
[15:32:51] <rewbycraft> All right
[15:32:55] <deep42thought> a lot of missing links in *.files.tar.gz and alike
[15:33:15] <rewbycraft> My script's slowly crawling through the arch repo
[15:36:19] <tyzoid> deep42thought: Do you know who manages the web portal?
[15:36:29] <deep42thought> tyzoid: Polichronucci does
[15:36:42] <deep42thought> but it's also on github
[15:36:48] <tyzoid> I saw
[15:36:50] <deep42thought> ok
[15:36:56] <tyzoid> I'll probably throw up a PR sometime soon for the nav linkx
[15:36:58] <tyzoid> links*
[15:40:22] <deep42thought> Does anyone know what the '${repo}.abs.tar.gz' is about?
[15:40:31] <deep42thought> e.g. core.abs.tar.gz
[15:40:45] <rewbycraft> Nop
[15:41:37] <tyzoid> Is that the arch build system index for that repo?
[15:41:43] <tyzoid> just a shot in the dark here
[15:42:02] <deep42thought> looks like the ports tree
[15:42:06] <tyzoid> ah
[15:42:16] <deep42thought> I'll ignore it for now and see if something breaks ;-)
[15:44:19] <tyzoid> jelle: If you're still on
[15:44:35] <tyzoid> The patch for the navbar would remove ie6 and potentially ie7 support
[15:44:44] <tyzoid> not sure if that's a problem for the archlinux website
[15:52:04] <jelle> lolno
[15:52:35] <tyzoid> That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure though.
[16:04:54] <WarheadsSE> rewbycraft: makechrootpkg + tmpfs
[16:05:04] <rewbycraft> Good point
[16:06:20] <WarheadsSE> It's already made, and usable.
[16:06:48] <WarheadsSE> This is what I use for all of my i686/x86_64 packages, and on some of my large-memory ARM devices
[16:07:27] <WarheadsSE> It also allows you to run, say, one for prod packages, and another for testing packages, and have them always be separate yet up-to-date with the repos.
[16:08:01] <tyzoid> WarheadsSE: Does that make it in a container? or just a chroot?
[16:08:47] <jelle> nspawn
[16:09:15] <deep42thought> so it's like archbuild + tmpfs, then
[16:11:16] <WarheadsSE> tyzoid: it makes an nspawn chroot, on a mounted tmpfs (mkarchroot)
[16:11:24] <tyzoid> sweet
[16:12:07] <WarheadsSE> https://ncry.pt
[16:12:08] <phrik> Title: NCrypt - Paste (at ncry.pt)
[16:12:58] <WarheadsSE> There are also some small modifications we made to the process, for ARM, but you won't likely need those. They handle multi-architecture package caching
[16:13:36] <WarheadsSE> matter of fact, ArchStrike uses plugbuild & the slaves similar to how ALARM does, because I set them up with it
[16:20:38] <WarheadsSE> They then operate as basically a layer on top of AL/ALARM, and because of that, their packages stay compatible with both across architectures. Then, they just need to rebuild those packages that are affected by SONAME bumps
[16:21:59] <deep42thought> ok, all repos except community are operational again - this one is still inserting packages into its database. However, I have to leave now ...
[16:22:51] <deep42thought> you'll notice when it's done simply by community.db.tar.gz reappearing
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[16:35:14] <tyzoid> so another question
[16:35:26] <tyzoid> When displaying the timestamp on the news feed, what timezone should I use?
[16:35:36] <tyzoid> I'm currently using the server's localtime
[16:36:06] <tyzoid> or should I take a hint from https://archlinux.org and not display a timestamp?
[16:36:08] <phrik> Title: Arch Linux - News (at archlinux.org)
[16:36:22] <tyzoid> sweet, we've got phrik
[16:36:32] <tyzoid> !wave
[16:36:33] * phrik waves to everybody
[16:42:29] <rewbycraft> tyzoid: How about GMT/UTC?
[16:44:24] <tyzoid> That was my thought at first
[16:44:40] <tyzoid> Though I wonder if it's possible to get the user's timezone in javascript
[16:44:54] <tyzoid> That way I'll display UTC, and convert it to local via javascript if available
[17:06:12] <rewbycraft> Sounds like a plan
[17:06:48] <WarheadsSE> that sounds far more sane.
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[20:50:45] <deep42thought> rewbycraft, tyzoid: the master mirror is clean again - let's see, how long it lasts :-/
[20:50:54] <rewbycraft> I noticed
[20:51:02] <deep42thought> good :-)
[20:51:14] <tyzoid> :)
[20:51:17] <rewbycraft> Out of interest, where's the master mirror hosted?
[20:51:34] <tyzoid> deep42thought has a server over in germany, iirc
[20:51:53] <deep42thought> Jena, Germany
[20:51:56] <rewbycraft> Ah
[20:52:05] <rewbycraft> Because the ip block belongs to some greek organisation
[20:52:08] <rewbycraft> And I was confused
[20:52:22] <deep42thought> of archlinux.org
[20:52:49] <deep42thought> for the trained eye it is obvious, where mirror.archlinux.org belongs to ;-)
[20:52:57] <deep42thought> sry archlinux32, of course
[20:53:06] <rewbycraft> I just noticed that mirror* has a different host than the site
[20:53:12] <rewbycraft> So where is the site hosted?
[20:53:34] <tyzoid> depends what part
[20:53:40] <tyzoid> the forum and news feed is on my server in chicago
[20:53:42] <rewbycraft> www.
[20:53:45] <tyzoid> the homepage is somewhere else
[20:53:51] <tyzoid> and mirror is deep42thought's
[20:54:01] <tyzoid> iirc Polichronucci hosts the www.archlinux32.org
[20:54:02] <deep42thought> homepage is on Polichronucci's vserver
[20:54:08] <tyzoid> ninja'd
[20:54:17] <rewbycraft> The site's hosted by "Greek Research and Technology Network S.A" according to ripe
[20:54:31] <rewbycraft> So... education/research network?
[20:54:38] <rewbycraft> Interesting
[20:54:57] <tyzoid> could just be a local ISP that serves a university and part of the neighboring community
[20:55:01] <tyzoid> or it could be a university server
[20:55:03] <tyzoid> who knows
[20:55:07] * rewbycraft shrugs
[20:55:18] <rewbycraft> I just enjoy exploring what kind of places host all kind of things
[20:56:02] <deep42thought> it's funny how few services and people we have, but already have it distributed over so many servers ...
[20:56:10] <rewbycraft> Yeah
[20:56:23] <rewbycraft> I wonder how you'd picture the "organisational structure" of this
[20:58:10] <jelle> tyzoid: hmm did you manage to get that navbar fix ready?
[20:58:31] <tyzoid> not yet
[20:58:35] <tyzoid> I'm at work, atm
[20:58:55] <tyzoid> It'll probably be in about 6 hours
[20:59:03] <tyzoid> when I get home/have time to work on it
[20:59:12] * jelle sets timer for +24 hours :-)
[21:00:21] <tyzoid> ?
[21:00:30] <tyzoid> 6 ≠24
[21:00:53] <deep42thought> but 6 > 24
[21:00:57] <deep42thought> oh no
[21:01:12] <tyzoid> It's been logged for posterity
[21:01:30] <tyzoid> lol, I see your point though
[21:01:44] <deep42thought> I could change the log ...
[21:01:58] <tyzoid> jelle: It's 9PM there, though, right?
[21:02:08] <jelle> tyzoid: for me it is :)
[21:02:23] <tyzoid> deep42thought: My mirror already grabbed it
[21:02:32] <jelle> basically means 1 hour of tinkering left for me :)
[21:02:36] <tyzoid> ah
[21:02:55] <tyzoid> if you're around in the morning, I'm usually up late
[21:03:08] <jelle> I have no rush :)
[21:03:12] <tyzoid> fair enough
[21:25:37] <rewbycraft> deep42thought: Whoops. Sorry, github's email didn't arrive until a minute ago./
[21:28:55] <deep42thought> hmm, there are two split packages (python-pyacoustid and python2-pyacoustid) which _both_ build python-pyayoustid and python2-pyacoustid O.o
[21:29:29] <jelle> in our repo?
[21:29:40] <tyzoid> ...
[21:29:43] <deep42thought> in the community repo
[21:29:47] <tyzoid> that sounds like a bug in the pkgbuild
[21:30:08] <tyzoid> python-acoustid shouldn't rely on python2-acoustid and visa versa
[21:30:46] <jelle> tyzoid: nope, it means someone didn't clean up their shit :)
[21:31:03] <deep42thought> so how should it look like in the end?
[21:31:13] <deep42thought> each builds only one package?
[21:31:15] <jelle> no
[21:31:28] <tyzoid> there shouldn't be any dependencies here
[21:31:32] <jelle> python2-pyacoustid should be removed :)
[21:31:33] <tyzoid> if I'm reading this correctly
[21:31:35] <deep42thought> it's not a dependency
[21:31:40] <deep42thought> jelle: ok
[21:31:48] <tyzoid> oh
[21:32:02] <jelle> since some day in the future python2 will be gone :)
[21:35:01] <deep42thought> I opened a bugreport - let's see, how fast this one is closed as "won't fix", like the others I opened :-)
[21:35:22] <jelle> this is a real issue, dunno about the other bugs
[21:35:34] <jelle> deep42thought: I've already pinged the dev ;-)
[21:35:36] <tyzoid> don't worry, jelle can yell at people if it's not fixed
[21:35:40] <tyzoid> ^
[21:35:47] <rewbycraft> He can jell at them
[21:35:49] <rewbycraft> Hehehe
[21:35:50] <jelle> I will just svn rm -r :P
[21:36:22] <deep42thought> :-)
[21:36:46] <tyzoid> So I finally figured out how to get my letsencrypt certs renewed without causing downtime on the http service
[21:37:12] <jelle> I'm also planning on seeing if I can add checks to arch for this stuff
[21:37:16] <deep42thought> does the certbot-nginx plugin (and similar) cause downtime?
[21:37:29] <deep42thought> jelle: what stuff do you refer to?
[21:37:30] <tyzoid> deep42thought: I use a third-party script that doesn'
[21:37:42] <tyzoid> doesn't require root, and doesn't modify any of my configs
[21:37:47] <jelle> deep42thought: sources which are gone and build failures :)
[21:37:49] <tyzoid> and doesn't need access to my user key
[21:38:17] <deep42thought> jelle: that would be great!
[21:38:18] <tyzoid> jelle: could be a project for #archlinux-devops
[21:38:38] <jelle> tyzoid: it's a dream for now :-)
[21:39:01] <tyzoid> Well if we can get automated testing working, that should be easier
[21:39:41] <tyzoid> deep42thought: is github.com/archlinux32 a github group?
[21:39:46] <jelle> automated testing for the iso?
[21:39:53] <tyzoid> jelle: for 100% package coverage
[21:40:02] <jelle> ohhh sounds ambitious
[21:40:09] <tyzoid> currently check() only covers 24% of packages
[21:40:18] <deep42thought> tyzoid: an organization
[21:40:30] <tyzoid> jelle: We're focusing on the infrastructure to make that possible
[21:40:40] <tyzoid> then we'll have a test case month or so where we write test cases
[21:40:49] <jelle> tyzoid: check() gives no guarrantees if a package is good though
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[21:41:05] <tyzoid> jelle: That's why we're not relying on check for the staging -> testing migration
[21:41:17] <tyzoid> check() is only to make sure the build isn't broken
[21:41:20] <deep42thought> passing check() is needed to enter staging
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[21:41:36] <jelle> you mean the PKGBUILD check() right
[21:41:39] <tyzoid> yup
[21:41:41] <deep42thought> right
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[21:42:02] <tyzoid> the current work flow is BUILD -> check() -> [staging]
[21:42:14] <tyzoid> we want to add [staging] -> TEST -> [testing]
[21:42:22] <deep42thought> ah, no
[21:42:34] <deep42thought> the TEST would happen between testing and stable, I thought
[21:42:50] <deep42thought> the move from staging to testing is as soon as no dependent packages are on the build list
[21:42:52] <tyzoid> Testing in this case would just be the platform for beta packages before released into stable
[21:43:01] <tyzoid> deep42thought: Works for me
[21:43:22] <tyzoid> so I take that back then, jelle:
[21:43:25] <deep42thought> what do you mean by "beta" packages?
[21:43:36] <tyzoid> we want to add [testing] -> TEST -> [prod]
[21:43:43] <jelle> cool :-)
[21:43:46] <tyzoid> deep42thought: Any package not in prod I classify as 'beta'
[21:43:52] <jelle> but install test or test scripts for a pkg?
[21:43:53] <deep42thought> ah, ok
[21:44:04] <tyzoid> jelle: Preferably both
[21:44:09] <tyzoid> it should cover install + testing
[21:44:15] <jelle> sounds like debians autopkgtests
[21:44:28] <tyzoid> but the infrastructure would cover the install part
[21:44:34] <tyzoid> so it would automatically fali the test if install failed
[21:44:59] <jelle> I hope we can work together here :-)
[21:45:02] <tyzoid> same
[21:45:16] <tyzoid> I'm not sure if you saw my rant the other day about testing
[21:45:41] <tyzoid> but the lack of testing kinda scared me for a sec there
[21:45:46] <jelle> I didn't
[21:45:51] <jelle> I did :P
[21:46:07] <jelle> since I just joined today thanks to phillid :P
[21:46:10] <tyzoid> did see my rant?
[21:46:47] <jelle> no
[21:47:47] <tyzoid> jelle: It
[21:47:54] <tyzoid> It's less of a rant and more of frustration
[21:47:56] <tyzoid> but http://mirror.archlinux32.org
[21:47:57] <phrik> Title: #archlinux-ports | Logs for 2017-06-20 (at mirror.archlinux32.org)
[21:49:24] <tyzoid> deep42thought: Can you add my account to that org?
[21:49:35] <deep42thought> I didn't?
[21:49:46] <tyzoid> Maybe you did
[21:49:53] <deep42thought> I invited you
[21:50:09] <rewbycraft> Oh btw, how's arch32 "officially" spelled? archlinux32 or Archlinux32 or ArchLinux32 or Arch Linux 32
[21:50:18] <tyzoid> all of those
[21:50:20] <tyzoid> and none of those
[21:50:22] <tyzoid> at the same time
[21:50:27] <deep42thought> ArChLiNu X32
[21:50:38] <tyzoid> ^
[21:50:39] <deep42thought> it's a superposition of them
[21:50:44] <rewbycraft> Mostly because it bothers me that the forum descriptions are inconsistent
[21:51:27] <tyzoid> deep42thought: I don't see archlinux32 in my list of orgs
[21:51:35] <rewbycraft> jelle: Did you see the forum yet, btw, since you're "new" here?
[21:51:39] <deep42thought> I would go for "Arch Linux 32" (similar to "Arch Linux")
[21:51:49] <rewbycraft> Yeah, is what I was thinking
[21:51:51] <deep42thought> tyzoid: I sent you an invitation
[21:51:59] <rewbycraft> (Also, yeah yeah, I get bothered by the small things)
[21:52:11] <jelle> rewbycraft: tbh not really interested in 32 bit, I have no 32 bit hardware
[21:52:19] <rewbycraft> Fair enough
[21:52:31] <rewbycraft> I've got some 32bit hw I want to keep running on arch
[21:52:43] * jelle is just waiting for his risc-v hardware :P
[21:52:48] <rewbycraft> Heh
[21:53:06] <tyzoid> deep42thought: Just got it
[21:53:26] <rewbycraft> tyzoid: "The file install.php still exists, but should be removed." < from the bbs
[21:53:37] <deep42thought> saw that to ^
[21:53:43] <deep42thought> s/to/too/
[21:53:48] <rewbycraft> I'm tempted to push "delete it"
[21:54:40] <tyzoid> rewbycraft: You shouldn't be alble to
[21:54:42] <tyzoid> able*
[21:54:50] <tyzoid> the forum has no write access
[21:54:53] <rewbycraft> Ah
[21:55:12] <rewbycraft> You should probably delete install.php yourself
[21:55:29] <tyzoid> just did
[21:57:20] <rewbycraft> tyzoid: I'm trying to fix some typos in forum descriptions: Error: Unable to write cache file cache_quickjump_1.php to cache directory. Please make sure PHP has write access to the directory '/var/www/bbs.archlinux32.org/web/cache/'.
[21:58:04] <tyzoid> bleh
[21:58:12] <tyzoid> on it
[21:58:39] <tyzoid> should work now
[21:58:55] <rewbycraft> Yup
[22:04:58] <rewbycraft> tyzoid: I went around fixing some typos and stuff
[22:05:23] <tyzoid> thanks :)
[22:05:32] <tyzoid> I'd promote you, but you're already admin
[22:05:34] <tyzoid> so...
[22:05:37] <rewbycraft> Heh
[22:05:58] <rewbycraft> Fixing little things is what I usually do with admin access
[22:06:21] <tyzoid> Here's a little ego boost for 'ya
[22:06:25] <tyzoid> see if you can find it
[22:07:12] <rewbycraft> "14311 posts" wtf
[22:07:20] <tyzoid> gg
[22:07:26] <rewbycraft> Did I spot it?
[22:07:28] <tyzoid> yup
[22:07:55] <tyzoid> just reset it back
[22:08:01] <tyzoid> It's literally an editable text field
[22:08:21] <deep42thought> does it accept letters as well?
[22:08:24] <rewbycraft> I spotted...
[22:08:25] <tyzoid> idk
[22:08:26] <rewbycraft> wtf
[22:08:55] <tyzoid> deep42thought: It uses PHP's typecasting to convert it to an int
[22:09:00] <tyzoid> so it silently removes letters
[22:09:07] <deep42thought> uaagh :-/
[22:09:18] <tyzoid> here are a few fun ones
[22:09:23] <tyzoid> 'f1432' => 0
[22:09:32] <tyzoid> '12c4' => 12
[22:10:04] <tyzoid> '1234e12' => 1234000000000000
[22:10:09] <tyzoid> etc
[22:10:30] <tyzoid> PHP is a funny language
[22:11:37] <tyzoid> hmm
[22:11:44] <tyzoid> my vps provider has a sale on vps's and dedis
[22:11:51] <deep42thought> https://github.com
[22:11:53] <phrik> Title: GitHub - sentientmachine/php_equality_charts: PHP Double Equals and Triple Equals Equality Charts (at github.com)
[22:12:04] <tyzoid> 16G ram + 240G ssd for $37USD /mo
[22:12:18] <rewbycraft> What hoster?
[22:12:31] <rewbycraft> Also, I just discovered the forum lets you set your own title
[22:12:43] <tyzoid> ChicagoVPS
[22:12:46] <tyzoid> It's in the US
[22:12:54] <tyzoid> the dedi is based in New York
[22:13:04] <tyzoid> so it's right on the transatlantic cable
[22:15:32] <rewbycraft> Ehhh. That provider is proper sketchy
[22:15:41] <tyzoid> how so?
[22:16:18] <rewbycraft> From what I heard, they are in ColoCrossing. Which doesn't have the best reputation...
[22:16:31] <rewbycraft> Also their "dedicated" servers aren't dedicated
[22:16:50] <tyzoid> really
[22:16:52] <tyzoid> That sucks
[22:17:04] <tyzoid> I haven't had many issues with their vps offering
[22:17:31] <rewbycraft> If you look closely, E3-1240V3, the cpu listed for all dedicated servers, is a 4 core 8 threads
[22:17:36] <tyzoid> jelle: Good night, then
[22:17:44] <rewbycraft> So they're probably putting 2 or 4 people on one server
[22:17:48] <jelle> tyzoid: more like good shower :P
[22:17:51] <tyzoid> ah
[22:17:55] <jelle> still ~ 30 C in my room baahha
[22:18:09] <tyzoid> It's 10pm, it's gotta be cooling down outside
[22:18:11] <rewbycraft> jelle: Yeah. I turned off most of my electronics to keep the temps down
[22:18:19] <jelle> tyzoid: it is
[22:18:31] <jelle> I've soldered fans together with a powersupply :P
[22:18:36] <rewbycraft> It's still 29C here
[22:18:46] <tyzoid> I usually open opposing windows on the top floor and put a fan blowing out o fone
[22:18:54] <tyzoid> s/o fone/of one/
[22:18:54] * rewbycraft only has one window
[22:19:07] <tyzoid> rewbycraft: Blow out of the one window
[22:19:11] <tyzoid> It'll pull cool air up
[22:19:28] <tyzoid> with a fan, ofc
[22:19:31] <tyzoid> not with your breath
[22:19:39] * tyzoid awaits "instructions unclear" messages
[22:19:47] <rewbycraft> Also, just google "colocrossing spam"
[22:19:52] <rewbycraft> That provider is very sketchy
[22:20:02] <tyzoid> ehh
[22:20:12] <tyzoid> once I have a full-time job I'll switch to a dedi anyway
[22:20:28] <tyzoid> never had problems with their service personally
[22:20:42] <tyzoid> only time was when I got ddosed and they null routed my system
[22:21:16] <tyzoid> but I've been with them since before they got bought out by a colo-crossing holding company
[22:21:27] <tyzoid> That's why I wasn't as familiar with it
[22:41:57] <rewbycraft> Ah
[22:43:47] <tyzoid> rewbycraft: Are you going to be on in the morning?
[22:43:56] <rewbycraft> Which morning
[22:44:02] <tyzoid> tomorrow morning
[22:44:11] <rewbycraft> Can you give a time in timezone?
[22:44:17] <rewbycraft> Because your morning isn't my morning
[22:44:32] <tyzoid> I know, when I'm chatting 1-on-1 I usually use the other person's timezone
[22:44:35] <tyzoid> your morning :)
[22:44:42] <rewbycraft> Ah
[22:44:49] <rewbycraft> Eh, probably not really
[22:45:02] <rewbycraft> I've got some stuff to attend to
[22:45:52] <tyzoid> okay
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