#archlinux32 | Logs for 2019-06-06

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[08:23:18] <buildmaster> Hi girls!
[08:23:18] <buildmaster> !rq girls
[08:23:19] <phrik> buildmaster: <girls> I'm married, I don't cook
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[08:23:20] <buildmaster> Hi deep42thought!
[08:23:20] <buildmaster> !rq deep42thought
[08:23:21] <phrik> buildmaster: <deep42thought> windows suggests swap on external usb sticks :-)
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[08:28:23] <ahuillet> hi deep42thought
[08:28:25] <ahuillet> rsync: send_files failed to open "/.bash_history" (in archlinux32): Permission denied (13)
[08:28:25] <ahuillet>
[08:28:30] <ahuillet> when syncing the mirror
[08:29:16] <deep42thought> oops
[08:29:35] <deep42thought> better now?
[08:30:23] <elibrokeit> deep42thought: hi
[08:30:34] <deep42thought> Hi elibrokeit!
[08:31:00] <elibrokeit> what's the story with devtools32? :p
[08:31:42] <deep42thought> dunno, I don't have time, currently
[08:32:07] <ahuillet> looks better thanks
[08:32:13] <deep42thought> ahuillet: np
[08:32:57] <elibrokeit> meanwhile I became upstream dev of arch-install-scripts and released a new version with fixes to pacstrap ordering logic :p
[08:33:06] <deep42thought> elibrokeit: I think, I have to re-evaluate all the commits I made in the light of your changes to devtools
[08:33:25] <deep42thought> you got promoted? ;-)
[08:34:01] <elibrokeit> it's now possible for *-keyring to populate new keys during the initial install, no need to do it in the middle of arch-nspawn
[08:34:11] <elibrokeit> I wear another hat now!
[08:34:21] <deep42thought> !grab elibrokeit
[08:34:22] <phrik> deep42thought: Tada!
[08:35:18] <elibrokeit> hehe
[08:36:00] <deep42thought> How many hats can someone wear simultanously?
[08:36:03] <elibrokeit> It's still necessary, BTW, for *-keyring to be installed *after* pacman/pacman-key
[08:36:12] <elibrokeit> deep42thought: not more than 200
[08:36:27] <deep42thought> after?
[08:36:30] <deep42thought> why's that?
[08:38:03] <elibrokeit> because then the Cat in the Hat starts suing for copyright infringement, probably!
[08:38:32] <deep42thought> no, I meant: why must *-keyring be installed _after_ pacman/pacman-key
[08:39:35] <elibrokeit> https://en.wikipedia.org
[08:39:36] <phrik> Title: The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
[08:39:38] <elibrokeit> good stuff
[08:40:03] <elibrokeit> *-keyring has a post-install script to run pacman-key --populate
[08:40:24] <elibrokeit> for obvious reasons it must be run only after the pacman-key script is installed.
[08:40:40] <deep42thought> ah, ok :-)
[08:41:17] <elibrokeit> As for the hats, past 200 you'll start feeling like poor Bartholomew Cubbins.
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[09:09:24] <elibrokeit> more or less https://bugs.archlinux.org
[09:09:26] <phrik> Title: FS#62826 : [pacman] [archlinux-keyring] dependency relationship is backwards, leading to populate failure (at bugs.archlinux.org)
[09:12:10] <deep42thought> would this also get rid of the systemd service in the iso which sets up the keys? (I might be confusing something here)
[09:12:34] <elibrokeit> no...
[09:13:04] <deep42thought> ok :-)
[09:13:22] <elibrokeit> the systemd service just runs pacman-key --init, to generate keys post-boot when we don't want to use static private keys for all users.
[09:13:32] <deep42thought> ah, right
[09:13:35] <elibrokeit> and that is part of archiso
[09:13:52] <elibrokeit> the changes I speak of are part of arch-install-scripts (/usr/bin/pacstrap)
[09:14:14] <deep42thought> yes, I was not sure if that may have made the other part obsolete, too
[09:14:45] <deep42thought> e.g.: why do I need separate private keys on the iso if they are not copied to the chroot anyways?
[09:14:59] <deep42thought> ah, it's a security thing :-)
[09:15:04] <deep42thought> ok, I have to go now ... cu
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[09:46:00] <buildmaster> Hi deep42thought!
[09:46:00] <buildmaster> !rq deep42thought
[09:46:01] <phrik> buildmaster: <deep42thought> nah, I never ran emacs - it's a nice os, but I couldn't find a suitable editor for it
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[09:47:55] <buildmaster> Hi deep42thought!
[09:47:55] <buildmaster> !rq deep42thought
[09:47:56] <phrik> buildmaster: <deep42thought> arch32 is on the bleeding edge of arch, which is on the bleeding edge of software?
[09:50:05] <elibrokeit> deep42thought: but they *are* copied to the chroot :)
[09:50:43] <elibrokeit> On the ISO, they are generated live on a tmpfs
[09:51:08] <deep42thought> ah, the private key gets copied? ok, then it's fine :-)
[09:51:39] <deep42thought> so if you are installing multiple arch systems from within one booted iso (on multiple disks, probably), then all end up with identical private keys
[09:52:25] <elibrokeit> Yeah, but Joe Cracker doesn't have them just because he downloaded the same ISO
[09:52:43] <deep42thought> yeah
[09:52:52] <elibrokeit> Unless, of course, it was a Manjaro ISO. :)
[09:53:04] <ahuillet> does Manjaro have baked-in private keys on the ISO?
[09:53:13] <elibrokeit> !manjaro2
[09:53:14] <phrik> Manjaro may be 'based on' Arch but it is not Arch. As for Manjaro itself, take a look at these posts: http://allanmcrae.com
[09:53:20] <elibrokeit> !manjaro3
[09:53:21] <phrik> http://web.archive.org and again in 2016: https://manjaro.github.io
[09:53:29] <elibrokeit> Still no
[09:53:35] <elibrokeit> ! manjaro4
[09:53:37] <phrik> https://pierre-schmitz.com
[09:53:41] <elibrokeit> There we are!
[09:57:57] <deep42thought> "It might be a bad idea to share the same private key on different machines."
[10:02:43] <ahuillet> btw, how are the archlinux32 builds produced, 32bit chroot on a "real" arch?
[10:03:46] <deep42thought> ahuillet: yes
[10:04:18] <deep42thought> but for special tasks, we (can) build in arch32 vms or on real hardware
[10:04:19] <ahuillet> I have a few packages built from AUR on my eeePCs, it's not the ideal platform for building packages. :)
[10:04:25] <deep42thought> :-D
[10:04:35] <deep42thought> I once tried to build a kernel on real hardware ...
[10:05:05] <deep42thought> well, more precisely /the/ kernel (with all the modules)
[10:05:52] <ahuillet> deep42thought : you created the mirror pool thing but it's apparently being painful with SSL certificates. I'm happy to change configuration of my mirror as needed, but I have no idea what needs doing.
[10:06:27] <deep42thought> yeah, I didn't have a brilliant thought about what to do with ssl on pool.mirror.archlinux32.org
[10:06:53] <deep42thought> If you have any idea, I have open ears for it :-)
[10:07:46] <ahuillet> I suck at web stuff :) might each mirror need to create a new vhost for pool.?
[10:08:12] <deep42thought> that for sure
[10:08:21] <deep42thought> (or just add another "severname" alias)
[10:08:27] <deep42thought> but this does not solve the ssl issue
[10:10:01] <deep42thought> yours works fine with http and also with https (if I ignore the cert)
[10:10:12] <deep42thought> so this is the best we can have with the current setup :-/
[10:10:29] <ahuillet> oh because I can't have a certificate for pool. since I don't control that domain
[10:10:43] <deep42thought> right
[10:10:44] <ahuillet> how do others solve that?
[10:10:49] <deep42thought> they don't
[10:11:01] <deep42thought> or what do you mean by "others"?
[10:11:06] <deep42thought> other archlinux32 mirrors?
[10:11:14] <ahuillet> other projects
[10:12:50] <deep42thought> https://pool.sks-keyservers.net does not solve the issue, too
[10:14:03] <deep42thought> we could distribute private keys + certificates for pool.mirror.archlinux32.org - but I really dislike the idea of distributing private keys and also this seems hard to implement with letsencrypt
[10:23:45] <ahuillet> deep42thought : what about a HTTP 302?
[10:23:54] <ahuillet> see curl https://deb.debian.org
[10:23:56] <phrik> Title: Index of /debianDebian Archive (at deb.debian.org)
[10:23:58] <deep42thought> yeah, that might be a solution
[10:24:21] <deep42thought> but then, again, we shift the single-point-of-failure one level up (from dns to the answering https server)
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[10:24:22] <buildmaster> Hi abaumann!
[10:24:22] <buildmaster> !rq abaumann
[10:24:22] <phrik> buildmaster: <abaumann> YASMSBOP: yet another silly make system based on python
[10:24:25] <deep42thought> Hi Andreas!
[10:24:32] <abaumann> Hi :)
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[10:49:49] <ahuillet> deep42thought: I don't know why debian picked the 302 solution, but they seem to have a use case that matches ours. as for the SPOF I'd think the mirrorlist could contain the pool first as the only default mirror, and still list others for manual fallback
[10:50:41] <deep42thought> the pool is not intended for regular use in mirrorlists, but this does not invalidate your other point
[10:50:52] <ahuillet> oh. what is it intended for?
[10:51:25] <deep42thought> some install image was pulling from a single mirror and we wanted to distribute the load across multiple mirrors
[10:51:46] <deep42thought> IDK exactly, some docker image or something
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[11:14:43] <alzai> Hello !
[11:15:18] <deep42thought> Hello alzai
[11:17:40] -!- midn has joined #archlinux32
[11:17:51] <midn> So, uuh, sometimes xfce4 starts with a black screen and mouse.
[11:18:20] <midn> Can't switch TTYs. Well, I can but they don't respond. Sometimes xfce4 starts normally but I can't figure out what the issue is.
[11:23:21] <deep42thought> my experience with such stuff is, that the system seems frozen, but is actually responsive - and only the graphics is frozen
[11:23:44] <deep42thought> can you confirm that? (e.g. can you log in (blindly) as root and issue "shutdown" and see if the system comes down?)
[11:29:20] <midn> deep42thought: But I can't login with the TTYs, there's just the blinking cursor
[11:29:35] <deep42thought> ah, so it's not frozen, then, hmm
[11:29:36] <midn> I can also move the graphics cursor
[11:29:48] <midn> But there's just the mouse
[11:30:07] <ahuillet> can you SSH in?
[11:30:20] <deep42thought> any errors in the logs (xorg and journalctl)?
[11:30:24] <ahuillet> what is this computer exactly?
[11:30:29] <ahuillet> oh and xrandr output too
[11:30:35] <midn> !ix
[11:30:36] <phrik> <command to print output> |& curl -F 'f:1=<-' ix.io
[11:30:55] <midn> I can give Xorg.0.log only when it works though
[11:31:22] <ahuillet> precisely, better to get it when it's not working, which you'll do over SSH
[11:33:47] <midn> Aight, continually restarting until it breaks :P
[11:34:06] <ahuillet> you haven't answered the what is this machine question.
[11:34:13] <ahuillet> GPU in particular
[11:34:58] <midn> Intel Atom N2600, the graphics is integrated
[11:35:01] <midn> it's a very old laptop
[11:38:20] <ahuillet> should be reliable, worth looking at dmesg/Xorg.0.log/journalctl
[11:40:12] <midn> What dmesg and journalctl parameters, exactly?
[11:40:44] <ahuillet> all you can give after reproducing the problem
[11:48:59] <midn> ahuillet: It stopped responding, ssh is stuck connecting
[11:49:09] <midn> It gave up and said no route to host
[11:49:13] <deep42thought> :-/
[11:50:19] <midn> But the graphics aren't frozen, and I can move the mouse, so wtf
[11:50:59] <midn> Whoa, the laptop crashed and restarted itself
[11:53:30] <midn> Okay, here's an idea, would it be possible to maybe force restart the computer if it fails to open the desktop within a specific timeout?
[11:53:40] <midn> It's a hack but i don't really care at this point
[11:53:48] <deep42thought> didn't it just do exactly that?
[11:53:49] <T`aZ> moving the mouse is done in hardware, X can still be screwed and cursor still moving
[11:54:34] <ahuillet> means that the kernel is still kind of there though (has to catch mouse interrupt and write GPU regs)
[11:54:44] <T`aZ> yes indeed
[11:55:09] <midn> Yes it did but I want to make the timeout less then like 5 minutes
[11:55:17] <ahuillet> midn : if you can't SSH, I doubt your userspace watchdog thing would be able to run.
[11:55:50] <ahuillet> serial console might catch some kernel error message, but this gets a bit involved
[11:56:41] <deep42thought> ahuillet: I think midn does not plan to attach external watchdog hardware
[11:59:30] <ahuillet> **would not be able to run
[12:06:22] <midn> Yes it did but I want to make the timeout less then like 5 minutes
[12:06:36] <midn> oops i alt tabbed to the wrong program nvm
[12:13:36] <midn> Nothing? Any clues? This seems to be XFCE4-specific as LightDM appears before with no issues
[12:24:26] <midn> Here's at least an xorg.0.log where it works: http://ix.io
[12:25:38] <ahuillet> try another DE?
[12:26:23] <midn> There's "glamour initialization failed"
[12:26:37] <midn> I used XFCE4 because it's super lightweight afaik
[12:26:39] <ahuillet> yes, I see the llvmpipe line, that doesnt' look good
[12:26:49] <ahuillet> is your Intel GL driver installed properly?
[12:29:12] <midn> Not sure how to check that
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[12:29:24] <midn> I think I installed xf86-video-intel, but I also set nomodeset in the kernel options
[12:29:56] <ahuillet> that isn't your problem anyway
[12:30:34] <ahuillet> but pacman -S mesa xf86-video-intel
[12:31:06] <midn> Already installed, it's prompting to reinstall
[12:31:08] <ahuillet> not sure why you want nomodeset?
[12:31:38] <midn> I ran out of ideas and did whatever, kinda stupid in retrospect but I was desperate :P.
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[12:55:46] <abaumann> nomodeset is usually a bad idea, as then the GPU cannot switch between text and video mode
[12:56:11] <abaumann> nomodeset (or the other modeset options) are good to get a plain text console.
[12:58:13] <abaumann> https://bbs.archlinux.org
[12:58:13] <phrik> Title: [Solved]Intel integrated video driver / Newbie Corner / Arch Linux Forums (at bbs.archlinux.org)
[12:58:34] <abaumann> I don't think the Intel driver is the right one. I would uninstall that one and try the xf86-video-fbdev
[12:59:19] <midn> Okay, I'll turn that off then, will reply in a couple mos
[12:59:55] <abaumann> sorry about the trouble, but all this graphic stuff got really worth lately, especially for older cards.
[13:01:45] <midn> worth?
[13:01:55] <abaumann> sorry, worse. :-)
[13:02:18] <midn> ah
[13:02:42] <midn> So it will be `pacman -Rsn xf86-video-intel` and `pacman -Sy xf86-video-fbdev`?
[13:02:48] <abaumann> yep
[13:03:28] <midn> Okay, going to take a couple restarts to check if it happens again, will message then
[13:03:34] <abaumann> ok
[13:14:16] <alzai> so I've got a bit of weird one for you, my laptop is an aspire one 532h with an atom N450 I think and should be running on i686 architecture but for some reason it's installing pentium4 packages instead of i686 and I haven't found anything to explain that.
[13:17:50] <deep42thought> alzai: did you check the news on archlinux32.org ?
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[13:18:07] <abaumann> https://ark.intel.com
[13:18:09] <phrik> Title: Intel Atom® Processor N450 (512K Cache, 1.66 GHz) Product Specifications (at ark.intel.com)
[13:18:15] <deep42thought> hmm, my news entry is gone O.o
[13:18:16] <abaumann> it has SSE2, so it's considered to be a pentium4
[13:18:47] <deep42thought> tyzoid: your cert expired (again)!
[13:18:47] <abaumann> this one? https://bbs.archlinux32.org
[13:19:00] <deep42thought> "sorry, arch 32 news are currently unavailable"
[13:19:07] <deep42thought> on the archlinux32.org front page
[13:19:16] <deep42thought> (probably exactly due to the above certificate error)
[13:19:22] <abaumann> I'm optiming for oprimizing that Let's encrypt stuff, switch of HSTS or host a plain HTTP version
[13:19:35] <abaumann> we have too much down time because of expiring certificates
[13:19:47] <deep42thought> I thought, tyzoid fixed it
[13:19:56] <abaumann> he fixes it every 3 month :->
[13:20:05] <deep42thought> I have that feeling, too
[13:20:48] <alzai> ^^
[13:21:27] <abaumann> oprimizing?? automatizing I meant :-)
[13:21:32] <alzai> Ok thanks a lot for the links
[13:21:35] <deep42thought> let me hack around the broken cert for now ...
[13:21:40] <abaumann> ok.
[13:21:45] <abaumann> alzai: np
[13:21:57] <deep42thought> abaumann: does your speech recognition not recognize your swiss dialect? ;-)
[13:22:29] <abaumann> no, it says: "please insert cheese here" ;-)
[13:27:10] <deep42thought> ok, cert-check is disabled
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[13:49:12] <abaumann> midn: just tried on my very old P3 machine (i686 packages). I neither get lightdm nor sddm to work, only slim works.
[13:49:43] <abaumann> My personal opinion about display managers is: too bulky, draw in too many depenendencies, and this basically for a password dialog + startx
[13:50:58] <abaumann> sddm says: Initializing... Starting... Logind interface found. then simply hangs
[13:51:37] <abaumann> lightdm says: "Failed to start Light Display Manager"
[13:51:42] <abaumann> very informative
[13:53:18] <abaumann> Seat seat0: Failed to find session configuration lightdm-gtk-greeter
[13:53:42] <abaumann> lightdm-webkit2-greeter: argh, yeah.
[13:53:46] <abaumann> this one will not work
[13:53:50] <abaumann> lightdm-gtk-greeter
[13:54:27] <abaumann> lightdm-gtk-greeter was missing..
[13:56:46] <abaumann> lightdm + lightdm-gtk-greeter + xfce work for me..
[13:57:12] <abaumann> the graphic card is an old ATI Rage 4 in VESA mode only.
[13:57:24] <abaumann> no other driver worked for me.
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[14:28:57] <alzai> Everything is pentium4 and my laptop survived the reboot so thanks a lot for the help !
[14:32:05] <deep42thought> nice :-)
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[16:21:32] <deep42thought> pool.mirror.archlinux32.org now works with a 302 redirect and is hosted on archlinux32.org
[16:21:50] <deep42thought> (where polichronucci and I have root access in case anything burns down)
[16:22:04] <ahuillet> nice!
[16:22:22] <deep42thought> ah, I have to get a letsencrypt cert, though :-D
[16:22:33] <ahuillet> redirects to https://arch32.mirrors.simplysam.us consistently which answers 403, dunno if that is expected.
[16:23:22] <deep42thought> hmm, it *should* only return valid mirrors :-/
[16:23:23] <ahuillet> nvm other redirects are present and work
[16:23:51] <ahuillet> then again that guy http://archlinux32.vollzornbrot.de is still super old?
[16:23:51] <phrik> Title: Index of / (at archlinux32.vollzornbrot.de)
[16:24:43] <ahuillet> http://mirror.archlinux32.oss won't work for most people (need special DNS, I'd take it out entirely honestly)
[16:25:25] <deep42thought> ah, this was no issue when we resolved via dns round robin
[16:25:49] <ahuillet> how does your code pick a server? my mirror seems never to come out, and others seem to come out very un-fairly
[16:26:06] <deep42thought> it randomly sorts and then "limit 1" the mysql query
[16:26:28] <ahuillet> let's see
[16:26:35] <deep42thought> https://git.archlinux32.org
[16:26:36] <phrik> Title: archlinux32/archweb32: Archlinux32 package and build system information interface - Archlinux32 Gitea (at git.archlinux32.org)
[16:27:23] <ahuillet> https://pastebin.aquilenet.fr
[16:27:24] <phrik> Title: PrivateBin (at pastebin.aquilenet.fr)
[16:27:27] <ahuillet> 100 requests
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[16:27:32] <buildmaster> Hi abaumann!
[16:27:32] <buildmaster> !rq abaumann
[16:27:33] <phrik> buildmaster: <abaumann> gogo-gadgeto-strace
[16:27:58] <ahuillet> so some mirrors seem missing, vollzornbrot.de should be removed, .oss also, and fairness is I guess OK
[16:29:36] <deep42thought> oss and up-to-date-ness should be fixed
[16:30:01] <deep42thought> which mirror is yours?
[16:30:12] <deep42thought> https://archlinux32.agoctrl.org ?
[16:30:13] <phrik> Title: Index of / (at archlinux32.agoctrl.org)
[16:30:17] <ahuillet> yes that one
[16:30:30] <ahuillet> I don't mind if it's not in the list, but it's certainly expected to work. It's only 100M though.
[16:30:53] <abaumann> no worries, I'm 30M only :-)
[16:31:16] <ahuillet> hehe. I got FTTH recently with 200M upload, so I guess I could host this at home directly
[16:31:34] <ahuillet> certainly getting 500M download made me more picky in my choice of mirrors, since a lot are 100M (for arch64)
[16:33:37] <deep42thought> ahuillet: did you call that url via http?
[16:33:39] <deep42thought> or https?
[16:33:50] <ahuillet> that was http, since curl didn't like your certificate
[16:33:57] <deep42thought> now it should :-)
[16:34:04] <deep42thought> and the https list should have your mirror
[16:34:10] <ahuillet> ulooks good
[16:34:11] <ahuillet> indeed
[16:34:40] <deep42thought> aha! your mirror is in the mirrorlist with https only
[16:34:49] <deep42thought> so it is not considered to be available via http
[16:34:52] <deep42thought> I'll change that
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[16:37:22] <deep42thought> ok, hopefully I didn't break anything, because I have to go now (and I don't have internet at home yet ...(
[16:37:23] <deep42thought> )
[16:37:23] <deep42thought> )
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[16:51:19] <ahuillet> no Internet at home. must be hard.
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